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Old 02 August 2014, 20:32   #1
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What do you give for passengers to sign before a trip?

I am just trying to write up a basic waver form for passengers to sign before our fast trips, could any one give any advice or preferably a copy of a successful one I could use for reference. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03 August 2014, 04:15   #2
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TBH I would go to something a little more official than a web forum for such critical information, RYA, Solicitor, MCA.

I don't think a Judge would take a shining view when the answer to "what due diligence did you undertake?" is, "I asked some blokes on a web forum"
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Old 03 August 2014, 04:38   #3
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With respect, if you want the 'waver' to stand up in court, get a professional to write it.
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:07   #4
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And the person signing it to have brought their legal advice with them when you thrust it under their nose!

You are insured I assume? Have they said you need a waiver? What is it they want them to waive?
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:23   #5
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This is the sort of PC Shite I go Boating to get away from!
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:30   #6
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This is the sort of PC Shite I go Boating to get away from!
He's a commercial operator Maxi - so it's a fair question, no?
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:36   #7
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He's a commercial operator Maxi - so it's a fair question, no?
For his own protection. It's a bit different to bunging a tent, a crate of beer and a few mates onboard. :-)
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:39   #8
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Ironically I suspect a court would give more credence to a waiver from a non-commercial operator! As a commercial operator (or even a non-commercial operator) he has a duty of care to his passengers/clients/customers. If operating in the UK he has responsibilities under the Health & Safety at Work Act and a disclaimer can't waive those responsibilities...

It can say that the activity has inherent dangers and that the operator will take reasonable measures to reduce those dangers but can not fully eliminate the dangers. But it will be for the court to decide if they actually did put in enough control measures. The presence of the disclaimer will make no difference. And wheeling out the disclaimer in court may be a bad thing as it is saying "we knew we hadn't eliminated all the risks but we thought we'd try and weasel out of our responsibilities"
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:40   #9
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I am just trying to write up a basic waver form for passengers to sign before our fast trips, could any one give any advice or preferably a copy of a successful one I could use for reference. Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Interesting one. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect waiver or no, you'll still have a strong duty of care to your passengers. The MAIB are now showing great interest in injuries brought on by high speed driving. Would the very best waiver protect you if someone damages a vertebra at 35kts?

Of no relevance I know, but interesting anyway, is the fact that RIB rides in the Irish Republic are limited to a top speed of 25kts - effectively banning thrill rides.
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:42   #10
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....And wheeling out the disclaimer in court may be a bad thing as it is saying "we knew we hadn't eliminated all the risks but we thought we'd try and weasel out of our responsibilities"
My thoughts exactly: "We knew it was risky, but we took yer money anyway!"
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Old 03 August 2014, 05:46   #11
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There tolls the death knell of commercial fast boat operations. :-(
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Old 03 August 2014, 06:22   #12
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Waiver isn't worth the paper it's written on !
But most clients like to see and sign something. I get them to sign a basic form about there health ( no back or bone problems, medication, epilepsy, pregnancy and are they on / carry medication for anything or anything they think I should know about )and that they have had a safety briefing etc.
As a commercial operator it is in your interests to give a very concise safety briefing before the clients are on the boat and another when on board, this is more important than a "waiver"
You say fast tours, check your insurance as you will more than likely find you are limited to around 25 knts by the insurance companies, I had to get my policy wording changed to state a higher max speed when carrying customers !

ITS A BLOODY MINEFIELD !!!
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Old 03 August 2014, 06:30   #13
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ITS A BLOODY MINEFIELD !!!
No wonder you're having insurance issues!

Agreed about the safety briefing - questioning pre-existing conditions, highlighting seating positions, handholds, how to get helm's attention as well as the usual MOB/fire stuff.
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Old 03 August 2014, 06:37   #14
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Wouldn't dispute that - thats about your risk assessment and adjusting your control measures for your specific clients. And that if something does go wrong you have the right information to hand over to whoever might need it.

Signing to say they've had a briefing is covering your a**e (which is fine in the modern world) - but when all 12 people on board say they signed the forms before getting on board and don't recall either a briefing before getting on board or after getting on board (or don't remember the specific thing you needed to tell them that they didn't do) it'll still be your word vs theres...
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Old 03 August 2014, 07:33   #15
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Ironically I suspect a court would give more credence to a waiver from a non-commercial operator! As a commercial operator (or even a non-commercial operator) he has a duty of care to his passengers/clients/customers. If operating in the UK he has responsibilities under the Health & Safety at Work Act and a disclaimer can't waive those responsibilities...

It can say that the activity has inherent dangers and that the operator will take reasonable measures to reduce those dangers but can not fully eliminate the dangers. But it will be for the court to decide if they actually did put in enough control measures. The presence of the disclaimer will make no difference. And wheeling out the disclaimer in court may be a bad thing as it is saying "we knew we hadn't eliminated all the risks but we thought we'd try and weasel out of our responsibilities"
Correct.
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Old 03 August 2014, 07:43   #16
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He's a commercial operator Maxi - so it's a fair question, no?
Fair enough,....must be Nightmare taking out scores of Numpys with a healthy sprinkling of pre-disposed well camouflaged 'Serial Claimers'!
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Old 03 August 2014, 08:07   #17
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Fair enough,....must be Nightmare taking out scores of Numpys with a healthy sprinkling of pre-disposed well camouflaged 'Serial Claimers'!
Almost ripe for the taking in this day and age. One of our kids had a slight coming together on a r/about recently. By the time that the fuzz turned up, the whole scummy family were holding their necks.
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Old 03 August 2014, 08:24   #18
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The only people I blame for this compensation claiming culture are the Lawyers who are making mega dosh. My father in laws always says never trust banks and insurance companies but I think that lawyers come very close too.

Any legal eagles on here
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Old 03 August 2014, 08:28   #19
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The only people I blame for this compensation claiming culture are the Lawyers who are making mega dosh. My father in laws always says never trust banks and insurance companies but I think that lawyers come very close too.

Any legal eagles on here
Heard on the radio this morning that the max that can be claimed by the ambulance chasers in fees for motoring derived 'personal injury' claims, has been dropped from £700 to £180.

Gonna have to work hard to make wages out of that.
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Old 03 August 2014, 08:31   #20
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NO. The max that the doctor can claim for writing you a letter that says you have a sore neck has dropped to £180 from £700, which makes the incentive for the doc to write it even if its sh*te less. But if he/she writes it and the court agrees you as the victim will be able to make a legitimate claim for things like loss of earnings, compensation etc...
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