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Old 10 October 2006, 04:30   #21
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Station calling / called

I've always taught that the station CALLED controls the working - that was the situation on my SRC Assessors course and when I did my old VHF licence years ago and indeed the upgrade to SRC ... there's a lot of logic to that .... if I want to call you - I listen around the working channels so I know what's free then I call you. You listen around the working channels where you are and then reply suggesting a channel ... I then confirm that as OK ... then we go to that channel and I wait for you to call me. That's 3 "overs" of Channel 16 ... and on the working channel we have the protocol to avoid both speaking at once.
The other way doing it discussed here with the CALLING station controlling the operation means that there's 4 "overs" on channel 16.
Having looked at the new RYA G31 ... page 31 says "The station that has been called is officially 'in control' of the communication ...... It is now accepted best practice for the vessel that initiated the call to choose the working channel".
So that's complicated the discussion a bit more! It's accepted practice that most people don't know about rather than the "official situation". I think I'll start teaching that if I call you and you respond with a channel number I'll confirm it and see you there. If you don't respond with a channel number I'll suggest one and wait for you to confirm it. An immediate change over is not feasible as those who did the licence before this discussion will be doing it the "old" way!
Thoughts? Colin
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Old 10 October 2006, 06:23   #22
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... I think I'll start teaching that if I call you and you respond with a channel number I'll confirm it and see you there. If you don't respond with a channel number I'll suggest one and wait for you to confirm it. An immediate change over is not feasible as those who did the licence before this discussion will be doing it the "old" way!
Thoughts?
I think that is wise. Far better than insisting one way is correct but in the real world we do it the other way.
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Old 10 October 2006, 06:26   #23
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Thoughts? Colin
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I think we are all saying the same thing! Common sense.
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Old 10 October 2006, 06:39   #24
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yep - I'll just carry on as I have been doing with common sense-and years of practical experience of using radio in the rescue services, and on my own boats from the days when we had Seafarer RT100 radios with crystals in them, to teach real world radio!
However there is also a matter as below
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Yup changed when the IMO introduced the DSC
The RYA G22/02 (vhf radio inc gmdss- so post dsc intro)on page 21 states
" Inter ship: the ship which is called controls communications. This is still the casewith DSC although it is helpful if the operator originating the call checks which inter-ship channels are not in use. He can then initiate the call using a free working channel. The called station may suggest a change of channel if neccessary"
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Old 11 October 2006, 03:56   #25
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Crystal set had one of those on one of the first boats I worked on amazing how technology has moved on.

We teach our beachlifeguards the full VHF DSC course but they only use handhelds controlled by a ground station
When a Lifeguard in the 1980,s through to present day we did not have this luxury we used flags or hand signals for communication and still do as you get abit wet in a surf zone and the engine tends to be noisy so vhf communication is not so effective when on the move fine when stopped.

The old day's when the man from the Ministry came in and examined you and expected a spot on M I R P D A N IO as well as correct voice procedure are long gone.

I shall continue to teach the way I was told caller calls and nominates channel at the same time Then called responds with agreement (thats two overs on 16 and seems logical to me as cuts time down on 16 for non DSC communication)
then both switch to nominated channel and retablish contact
I shall continue to mention the older system as well though as it will take years before every one will have a DSC unit
I guess we all have a different take on how the course should be taught
but so long as its in the real world it should not be a problem should it.
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Old 11 October 2006, 08:46   #26
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This is yet another reason to my mind why the RYA needs taking out of the VHF training process, or at least downgrading to that of one of a number of trainers, anyway.

The licence standard is set by Ofcom - therefore ANYONE should be able to teach to that standard, as long as their students can pass a properly moderated exam, and as long as instructors can verify (a) their knowledge and (b) the security of their processes.

After all, the current situation is like the Driving Standards Agency setting the driving exam, but then telling the public that only instructors working for the AA could teach them!!

I don't mind the RYA getting precious about their own courses, although personally I feel the powerboat courses need a massive overhaul, as there is no legal requirement to pass an exam and doing so is purely a matter of choice (at the moment). However, as the VHF exam IS a legal requirement, and the licensing is done by a government body, then the teaching of it should NOT be restricted to any single organisation.

Oh, and BTW, called station DOES control the working channel - try calling an MRCC and asking for a channel they don't want to use!!

Simon
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Old 11 October 2006, 09:07   #27
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Oh, and BTW, called station DOES control the working channel - try calling an MRCC and asking for a channel they don't want to use!!

Simon
Simon

Coast sations allways control communications.

You have an iteresting view on things

Jono
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Old 11 October 2006, 09:15   #28
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strewth this thing rumbles on
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Oh, and BTW, called station DOES control the working channel - try calling an MRCC and asking for a channel they don't want to use!!
there has never been any disagreement in this thread that a coast station is always the controlling station and always chooses the working channel-he has a limited number of channels and may be using a remote aerial that you cannot hear. For this reason whichever way the comms start the coast station chooses the working channel.

anyone can teach the course I suppose and I did before I went and did the examiners ticket-but we got a local external examiner in and learned a lot from his methods - and that could still be done if the students all present for a direct assesment.

Just a tad unhappy that this thread that started as a really useful discussion and a good way of disseminating opinions and views on a topic to try and have everyone singing off the same song sheet moved at one point to report a centre to the rya and tell 'em what equipment they were using situation when they hadnt done anything untoward! Any way I'm off to Greece in the morning to see a client again, play with his boat, use vhf to talk with the hellenic coastguard (complete with sidearms and a book of fixed penalty ticket) drink ouzo and be away from phone and internet-tuff life!
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Old 11 October 2006, 10:45   #29
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Simon

Coast sations allways control communications.

You have an iteresting view on things

Jono
Interesting view? Quite possibly ! :-)

I just fail to see why a single, unaccountable body should be the only one allowed to certify to a standard set out by a government department!

And yes, I know CS's always control comms, but this is where the principle of "called station control" originated from years ago.
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Old 11 October 2006, 11:07   #30
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JK can we just close this thread? its doin my head in now

To sum it up Common Sense rules again!
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