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Old 01 May 2007, 15:02   #51
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From the MCGA - Ref Simon Hawkins Post

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your e-mail. The guidelines you have quoted are absolutely correct and great best practice. Unfortunately the paragraphs you have quoted are taken from Marine Guidance Note 280 which currently does not have any supporting legislation. This means that we are unable to enforce them until such time the supporting legislation in the form of a Statutory Instrument comes into force.

The vessel in question I believe is coded under the NDP Code (red code) which is supported by a Statutory Instrument. Therefore those rules apply to it. Within that Code of Practice the wearing of a killcord is not required (although we obviously recommend it) so I am unable to require him to do so.

Next time I am down in that area I will approach that vessel and see what he is up to, and pass on the good advice you mentioned about lifejackets and kill cords.

Best regards,

Mark

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The Maritime and Coastguard Agency
Southampton Marine Office
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Old 01 May 2007, 15:54   #52
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Hi Richard

Thanks for getting the info.

A big concern that a commercial person carrrying operation is not bound by legislation based on the common sense actions taken by sensible people every day.

Within Health and Safety "Best Practice" is based on an approved code. Althjough you don't have to abide by its requirements, it can be used in evidence against you in the event of an incident.

By the sound of it Marine Guide 280 is weightless without that legislation.

Doesn't change my opinion on the safety issues concerning this operation though.
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Old 01 May 2007, 16:16   #53
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Phil,

You are, I suspect, right in drawing a parallel with the HSE approach to guidance. Unfortunately, as the MCA state, an MGN is not a legal instrument, however, should an accident occur, the person concerned could expect a severe comment from the MAIB (or even worse a coroner) should an accident occur.

As the skipper / operator, the buck stops there. Anyone can simply refuse to carry any passenger not wearing a lifejacket, and in my opinion they should do so.

For many, their first taste of boating is on a pleasure trip. Commercial operators are seen as being professionals and should work in ways that the boating public would be safe emulating.

Also, a simple risk assessment for the operator's business should show something like :

Risk - Passenger falls overboard and drowns
Mitigation - Insist passengers wear lifejackets.

I have to do a risk assesment before we deploy the RIB, or before I take a vessel in tow, or before we do almost anything. Deck crew wear lifejackets - full stop. Doesn't matter if its flat calm in harbour, or F9 off Ushant - they are worn.

The operator in the picture may well be within the law, but the letter of the law and safe professional operation are often not the same thing.

If you're really worried about his safety, drop a note to James Weld who's family own the Lulworth Estate, my bet would be they've had to give him consent to operate at some point....
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Old 01 May 2007, 16:37   #54
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Out of interest I have just had a look at my commercial policy and one of the clauses for Fast Vessels (RIB's) states 'All passengers and crew are to wear life jackets at all times'
Richard
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:14   #55
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Phil,


If you're really worried about his safety, drop a note to James Weld who's family own the Lulworth Estate, my bet would be they've had to give him consent to operate at some point....
For gods sake, please contact him first to get his side of the story.

I can't believe whats going on here...reporting him to the MCA, contacting the land owners from where he operates...all from a couple of long distance photos.

Are you determined to put him out of business and possibly wreck his livelyhood without giving the guy a chance to respond? Unbelievable.
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:18   #56
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For gods sake, please contact him first to get his side of the story.

I can't believe whats going on here...reporting him to the MCA, contacting the land owners from where he operates...all from a couple of long distance photos.

Are you determined to put him out of business and possibly wreck his livelyhood without giving the guy a chance to respond? Unbelievable.
Tim, if he is within the law, he will not suffer as a result of this. If he is outside the law, he has generated the situation all by himself.
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:21   #57
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I can't believe whats going on here...reporting him to the MCA, contacting the land owners from where he operates...all from a couple of long distance photos.

Are you determined to put him out of business and possibly wreck his livelyhood without giving the guy a chance to respond? Unbelievable.
1) The kind of person who takes a 'fast rib ride to Durdle Door' doesn't visit here.
2)If he's doing nothing wrong he's got nothing to worry about...right?
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:23   #58
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For gods sake, please contact him first to get his side of the story.
3) If you're really that concerned, why don't you ring him?

John
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:24   #59
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All I'm saying is contact him first.
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Old 01 May 2007, 17:29   #60
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I'm not the one making accusations...The proper thing do do is for them to contact him to explain what they have been saying and ask him for his response.
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