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Old 30 April 2007, 16:50   #21
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IMHO the pictures speak for themselves. Definately NO lifejackets worn by anyone! That is bad practice, it lacks common sense, and it also shows no respect for the lives that are in your charge! He deserves to be slated in public!
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Old 30 April 2007, 16:53   #22
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And, to be brutally honest, I don't like you passing judgements on people's personality, and possibly also their business and livelyhood, in a public forum, when you clearly haven't got all the facts. If you don't like it, why not just leave them/us to it?
I don't believe I have passed judgement on anyone's business and livelyhood here...it is precisely this that others are doing on this Rib Operator in Lulworth Cove, including taking photographs of his operation and posting them on here for general comment.

It would have been interesting to hear his responses to these comments, but of course there is little chance of that.
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Old 30 April 2007, 16:58   #23
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I don't believe I have passed judgement on anyone's business and livelyhood here...it is precisely this that others are doing on this Rib Operator in Lulworth Cove, including taking photographs of his operation and posting them on here for general comment.
Soooooo.... At what point is it wrong to post pics on here of other people?
Should we only post pictures of people doing everything by the book?
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:03   #24
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I don't believe I have passed judgement on anyone's business and livelyhood here...it is precisely this that others are doing on this Rib Operator in Lulworth Cove, including taking photographs of his operation and posting them on here for general comment.

It would have been interesting to hear his responses to these comments, but of course there is little chance of that.
Tim - part of me agrees with you. BUT I see nothing wrong with someone posting a picture of what they consider to be bad practice as a topic for discussion. I also see nothing wrong with you challenging that and even calling someone a "traffic warden" which I assume isn't intended as a personality slight but rather a comment on the fact that they "enforce rules".

I agree that the operator should have the right to reply - perhaps JK will hunt him down - or someone here knows how to get hold of them?

If they are opperating within the limits of their coding then its just a discussion about what is the best practice in the opperation of a rib. if they are outside their coding then perhaps the person who was so concerned to post it here in the first place should be referring to the MCA.
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:05   #25
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I don't believe I have passed judgement on anyone's business and livelyhood here...it is precisely this that others are doing on this Rib Operator in Lulworth Cove, including taking photographs of his operation and posting them on here for general comment.
Yes you have. I wouldn't like to be a traffic warden with you around.

Perhaps I was unclear. What I should have said was I don't like your passing judgement, and then criticising others for doing the same. What is happening hear is a discussion of safe practice, legal practice, and the percieved quality of someone who would appear to be a rib charter operator. This is a ribbing forum after all. What you are doing is turning this discussion into an opportunity to degrade and otherwise castigate other forum members, simply because their ideas do not fit your own.

If you have no problems with the safety implications of a charter operator not using lifejackets, or a kill cord, fine. Many on this forum would disagree with you, but that is your opinion, and doubtless you have your own reason for holding it. But why not post your reasons, instead of simply calling people traffic wardens?

If I was the charter operator reading these posts, I would probably be concerned about the image it gives my company. But the only thing I could do about it, would be to change my operating procedures, and perhaps post on here to tell people I've changed them. That's happened before on web forums, and is a fairly transparent, and instructive way of doing business. I do not think these posts on this forum will have harmed his business in any way, as anyone here who think the posts make him look unsafe, wouldn't have paid for a rib excursion with him, regardless. He hasn't lost any customers - although it appears he may not have gained any either.

What you have to remember Tim, is that there are a lot of people on this forum who have made powerboating their profession, and with an industry as competetive and low margin, if you make it your profession, you make it your world. It naturally, therefore, grates, when you see a thriving business that is potentially running unsafely, as in addition to the threat to safety on board, accidents only result in more paperwork, rules, and restrictions, for your own operation. That's why people post such things on a forum, and that's why they are valued discussion points.

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It would have been interesting to hear his responses to these comments, but of course there is little chance of that.
Yes, it would be interesting. I'd like to hear whether or not he thinks it is safe, the reasoning behind his decisions, and if, in light of these posts, he intends to change it.

Anyway, so far I haven't posted my opinion on these photos. The lack of lifejackets - possibly this wasn't an issue. In all photos the boat is lightly loaded, and travelling at a trolling speed. It could be that the Skipper made an assesment based on the weather conditions and itinery that meant he thought the risk from not wearing lifejackets was acceptable. It may not be a decision I would have made, but it may not have been incorrect.

The Kill Cord on the other hand - I find inexcusable. With a running engine, it is all to easy for someone to knock the boat into gear and on to full throttle, throwing the skipper back away from the controls, where a kill cord would be a handy means of stopping the rib. Also possible for the skipper to go overboard, and for the boat to torque steer back to him in the water running him over, there are plenty of risks, and there is no reason I can see, in this application, why it would be safer, or there would be a mimimum of risk, from not having the kill cord on.

Only my view - I welcome any thoughts.
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:09   #26
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If something did happen to one of his unsuspecting passengers, and he then LOST his business because no-one wanted to trust him anymore, then that would be a tradgedy. All thats happening here, is that people are pointing out their obvious concern. Unless of course some on here think its all right to not have respect for human life? I cant understand why this mans actions should be defended....
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:12   #27
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Not sure if I can see a Kill cord from the photos.

Meanwhile and I only ask, what is the rule about wearing Life Jackets in UK.
I seem to recall that Boats in excess of 7 Meters are exempt from mandetory wearing of same at least in Ireland.
In any event it makes sense to wear them especially where " Rides and wave jumping" are expected! Only asking mind!!!!!
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:12   #28
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The Kill Cord on the other hand .... ..., why it would be safer, or there would be a mimimum of risk, from not having the kill cord on.

Only my view - I welcome any thoughts.
Do all diesel ribs have kill cords (clearly they can't just ground the plugs as in a petrol)? I know its possible - but is it a "given" or might we be slagging the guy for not wearing a kill cord which actually doesn't exist?

Or is it a coding requirement anyway?
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:16   #29
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http://www.jurassiccoast.com/downloa...st_by_boat.pdf

His advertising shows no-one in the rib with a lifejacket on....and he's advertising 'fast rib rides to Durdle Door".

Legal or not, it's a very bad image.
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Old 30 April 2007, 17:16   #30
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Do all diesel ribs have kill cords (clearly they can't just ground the plugs as in a petrol)? I know its possible - but is it a "given" or might we be slagging the guy for not wearing a kill cord which actually doesn't exist?

Or is it a coding requirement anyway?
I am not sure on either point. The coding requirement question I will look up at work tomorrow. But yes, we might well be slagging the guy for not wearing a kill cord that doesn't exist!

edit: I say I'm not sure on either point. I know for a fact that not all diesel ribs have kill cords. Whether most/all/or what percentage of modern ones do, I don't know.
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