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Old 08 April 2006, 09:15   #11
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Am I the only person who doesn't see any joy in yet another 6 young instructors unleashed in the Solent!
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Old 08 April 2006, 14:10   #12
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Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Am I the only person who doesn't see any joy in yet another 6 young instructors unleashed in the Solent!
Almost certainly not. But do not fear, I believe under government reforms in planning, being young and good at something will soon be outlawed.

Seriously though, as a freelance instructor, some of the guys from this course will almost certainly take some of my work away. But hey, if they're good at coaching, and transfer a positive attitude and a safe approach to our chosen sport, surely that can only be a good thing? In a competetive market, if I'm to stop them from getting my work, I'm just going to have to put more effort into what I do!
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Old 08 April 2006, 14:37   #13
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I expected no less than this Bull as a reply , you haven't failed to dissapoint me!

Being young and good at something isn't mutually exclusive being young and confident certainly isn't but being young and experienced well that's a different matter, now isn't it!

BTW does the 5 years relative experience start at the age of 16 or does it go from before one is qualified to drive a power boat on ones own!
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Old 08 April 2006, 15:24   #14
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Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
I expected no less than this Bull as a reply , you haven't failed to dissapoint me!
Well, I aim to please. I guess I'll add predictable to my list! Which bit is Bull, or is that a general comment aimed at my whole thread? Remember, I am putting myself out to help any student that wants to become a PBI, because I enjoy what I do with Powerboats, and don't see why others can't do the same. I am not making money from this course - which is why JK has allowed me to advertise it, and am genuinely running it because I believe that suitable power boaters should be encouraged to become instructors, and offer their services to others.

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Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Being young and good at something isn't mutually exclusive being young and confident certainly isn't but being young and experienced well that's a different matter, now isn't it!
No, I disagree. I have been sailing dinghies all my life, and started driving powerboats at about age 7 (difficult to pin it down, as it's been an integral part of my life.) I did my level 2 at the youngest age I could. Since then I've worked hard to ratchet up as many hours as I can in a range of boats. I've also worked on my manner with other instructors, and course participants. At the risk of sounding big headed, I think that would count for more than being say, 35, doing my level 2, and within a year being an advanced PBI!

Just because people are young, doesn't mean they have no experience, just as if people are old, it doesn't mean they have lots of experience. You will get a mix. To my mind, the power boat instructor course is being able to helm a powerboat to a standard above level 2, and have the skills required to get others knowledge up to a level 2 standard. I don't think age can be a precluding factor. (to some extent)

The 5 years comes from whenever they did their level 2 - remember you can get a level 2 aged 12. If you've worked with your level 2 for a year solid, that fits the bill for the prerequisite. Those pre requisites apply whether you are 18, or 80. If you have that experience, you can do the PBI course. If you prove you can handle boats, and have the skills required to teach others to handle boats, you will hopefully pass the PBI course. If not, you won't get it, and the powerboat trainers would judge everyone on their individual merits, not by something as irrelevant as age.

Don't confuse experience with maturity. I don't agree that someone cannot be a good powerboat instructor because they are young alone. They may be a bad instructor through immaturity, inexperience, lack of knowledge (this is not the same as inexperience!), lack of professionalism, and a poor manner (among others). These things can apply to any instructor, regardless of their age.

You may not wish for more powerboat instructors in the Solent, from a business perspective, and I understand that view (but don't support it, as I believe competition makes people better at what they do!). However, to say that someone shouldn't get recognition to teach the RYA level 2 courses, simply because they are young, is not a view I support. Experience, yes, that's needed. Age, no, that isn't.

The day I meet anyone that claims they know everything there is to know about Power Boating or Sailing, is the day I don't get in a boat with them! In my view, everyone has things to learn, because no amount of experience can train you for the different scenarios that the water will throw at you. I learn something most times I go on the water, and I'm sure this applies to most people.
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Old 08 April 2006, 16:56   #15
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Originally Posted by tim griffin
Hi Jimbo

If any of your student friends wish to undertake a Beachlifeguard course let me know also the National Rescue Award for Outdoor Activity Supervisors (Important for AALA Accreditation)
We run the following
Beach Lifeguard
Rescue Helm and Crew
Paddle Board
Rescue Canoe
VHF
02 and defibb (AED)
As well as Instructor courses in most of the above (not vhf)
Cheers Tim, I'll copy that across to some of our forums.

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Originally Posted by tim griffin
Sorry I was unavailable to run the Instructor course for you maybe next time.
Yup - it's a shame, we would have liked you to do the course. But, there will be others, and I look forward to finding dates you can make!
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Old 09 April 2006, 02:50   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
Remember, I am putting myself out to help any student that wants to become a PBI, because I enjoy what I do with Powerboats, and don't see why others can't do the same. I am not making money from this course - which is why JK has allowed me to advertise it, and am genuinely running it because I believe that suitable power boaters should be encouraged to become instructors, and offer their services to others.


.
Well fkk me Mother Teresa is alive and well and living in Portsmouth.

I seem to remember a conversation with you about this course . Do you not have some deal for extremely cheap facilities inc mooring for your sailing club and your own RIB.?

Isn't part of that deal that you have to run so many courses at Whale Island for which you need instructors that are more cost effective than yourself?
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Old 09 April 2006, 03:01   #17
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Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I seem to remember a conversation with you about this course . Do you not have some deal for extremely cheap facilities inc mooring for your sailing club and your own RIB.?
We are getting a good deal from the Royal Naval Sailing Centre for the University Sailing Club boats and Rib. My rib, I pay for storage for - I unfortunately have no beneficial deals here. My rib and the University of Portsmouth Sailing Club are 2 totally different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Isn't part of that deal that you have to run so many courses at Whale Island for which you need instructors that are more cost effective than yourself?
No. RNSC would very much like us to help with their courses - but there is no requirement for this. I have already been volunteered to run some of their courses, again as freebies. This PBI course was being planned long before we planned on moving to whale island. That said, they will be pleased of all the help they can get from us.

I'm not just facilitiating a PBI course for the Students - last year I organised a Senior Dinghy Instructor course, this year on the programme I have assisant instructor courses, Dinghy Instructor courses, and Advanced Dinghy Instructor Courses (as well as an Advanced PBI course being planned). These are all tickets I have already, and all tickets other students want. It's only the PBI ones that are advertised on RibNet though!
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Old 09 April 2006, 15:14   #18
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My apologies Jimbo I must have imagined that conversation with you!

I am pleased to see that your verbosity is only matched by your altruism!

Going back to your point of working with your boat for a year solid! Do you mean like 40 weeks a year 4 days a week commercially or the occasional bit of safety boat work for a sailing club.

Lets look at a few parts of the curikewlumm Re experience.

Lets take boat maintenance for example......HTF can you instruct someone in how to maintain a boat and trailer with any conviction or knowledge if you have never owned or been responsible for one! ( Unfortunately this is a point that may well be contemporaneously pertinent to you having achieved the unfotunate staus of boat owner)

Trailer launching. Possibly the most dangerous part of the Sylabus. Would you really want to be taught by someone who'd read a book on how to do it and never done it that often! Yeah I know there are older well established instructors who are rubbish on a slipway but the point is pertinent.

Another point you made is that competition raises standards! that really is a tired cliche! It does in the case of a monopoly (such as BT ) but it doesn't in the case of a crowded marketplace such as training and freelance instructing in this area. It merely drives down the price paid for an instructor.

I am not against young people per se. I think DJL is an excellent instructor and a definite assett to Paul Glatzels operation.

I can go on but for what it's worth about experience but to give you a yardstick I think the guy that coached you before your APBI is a know nothing dipstick and I don't like his wife much either!


Maybe the answer lies in an apprenteship!
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Old 09 April 2006, 15:18   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
.

I'm not just facilitiating a PBI course for the Students - last year I organised a Senior Dinghy Instructor course, this year on the programme I have assisant instructor courses, Dinghy Instructor courses, and Advanced Dinghy Instructor Courses (as well as an Advanced PBI course being planned). These are all tickets I have already, and all tickets other students want. It's only the PBI ones that are advertised on RibNet though!
perhaps you can plug them on dinghy.net
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Old 09 April 2006, 15:56   #20
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Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
My apologies Jimbo I must have imagined that conversation with you!
Or had some vital parts lost in translation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Going back to your point of working with your boat for a year solid! Do you mean like 40 weeks a year 4 days a week commercially or the occasional bit of safety boat work for a sailing club.
We are talking using a boat as an integral part of your work. So, running a safety boat "full time" for a year, or using the boat as a coach safety boat as a dinghy instructor would count. Remember, the level 2 is not a commercial qualification, it is a leisure one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Lets look at a few parts of the curikewlumm Re experience.

Lets take boat maintenance for example......HTF can you instruct someone in how to maintain a boat and trailer with any conviction or knowledge if you have never owned or been responsible for one! ( Unfortunately this is a point that may well be contemporaneously pertinent to you having achieved the unfotunate staus of boat owner)
I know old powerboat instructors that have never owned their own boat. Is boat maintenance and trailer maintence on the syllabus for a PB2? Let's take a look:

We have, on the syllabus:

Knowledge of:
Care of trailer bearings, hitch, lashings, ties, lights and winch
Siting of fuel tanks, fuel lines, batteries, wiring, fire extinguishers
Routine engine maintenance checks, basic fault diagnosis
Close down procedure
Can:
Carry out pre-start checks, engine starting and stopping


I would disagree that there is anything so arduous here that an experienced boat driver, who fulfills the criteria of 5 years intermittent powerboating, or 1 year full time, will not have already come across!

Oil changes, Spark Plug replacement, CDI pack replacement, mixture, idle speeds, alternator problems are all things I'd experienced before I achieved the unfortnate status of boat owner!

Trailer bearings (note, it only says bearings, nothing about tyre pressures, roller quality, legal aspects of towing, brake maintenance - just bearings!) is not a difficult topic on trailers. If your boat is marina kept - as many older powerboat instructors boats/schools that use a variety of instructors boats are, then you would only talk about this topic on a PB2 course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Trailer launching. Possibly the most dangerous part of the Sylabus. Would you really want to be taught by someone who'd read a book on how to do it and never done it that often! Yeah I know there are older well established instructors who are rubbish on a slipway but the point is pertinent.
Why? Why is a young incompetent instructor anymore dangerous than an old incompetent instructor. It is a pertinent point that people that have always had their boats in marinas are likely to be poor at it - but not a pertinent point that age has anything to do with it!

If you have a 45 year old powerboater who has always had their boat marina berthed, and craned in, who does an instructor course, would you rather have them teaching launching, or the 18 year old dinghy instructor who has, every day for 2 seasons, launched 4 or 5 powerboats down a slipway, and recovered, with the hazard of 6 or so sailing students and their dinghies underfoot? Age has no bearing on experience in this case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
Another point you made is that competition raises standards! that really is a tired cliche! It does in the case of a monopoly (such as BT ) but it doesn't in the case of a crowded marketplace such as training and freelance instructing in this area. It merely drives down the price paid for an instructor.
Again, I disagree. It may have this effect - but only for bad schools, that treat their instructor poorly, and don't pay a fair wage. I know of 2 schools on the south coast that charge 400 a head for a powerboat level 2 course, and they still get enough punters in to pay the bills. They pay their instructor well, and students must obviously feel they get value for money, as they come back!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
I am not against young people per se. I think DJL is an excellent instructor and a definite assett to Paul Glatzels operation.
Yes, having met DJL only relatively briefly, I have a lot of respect for him, and what I took to be his impressive knowledge base. If you have nothing against young instructors, what on earth are you bashing on about? I've agreed that you need experience, on every count, however you haven't yet shown me why young people don't have that experience. DJL is an instructor - he's young - he's good - so just maybe, possibly, perhaps, some of the guys on this student PBI course could be the same????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
I can go on but for what it's worth about experience but to give you a yardstick I think the guy that coached you before your APBI is a know nothing dipstick and I don't like his wife much either!
Carry on going on about experience. It's something that's very useful. But don't belittle all those instructors and potential instructors out there who have worked hard to gain appropriate experience simply on the basis of their age.
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