Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 06 April 2009, 11:58   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 30
RYA Wavelength - should sailing instructors be allowed to run the safety boat course?

John Thorn, National Sailing Coach highlights the fact that there is a lack of uptake for the safety boat course among sailing, rowing and windsurfing club safety boat drivers and suggests that this is because there aren't enough PBIs in club environments who are willing to teach it (for free).

He suggests that sailing Senior Instructors are often more experienced, in the field of race management as well as rescuing boats, and so are potentially better suited to the role. He wants feedback by email, but I thought it would potentially be good to have the discussion in an open forum as well.
__________________

__________________
Matt Riley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 April 2009, 12:41   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: cookoo land
Boat name: tba
Make: ribcraft 595
Length: under 3m
Engine: Suzi 140
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 316
It's a darned good idea. There's no one better to rescue a Topper than a Topper sailor, or a 420 than a 420 sailor etc etc etc.

As long as they have the powerboat skills as well!
__________________

__________________
BassBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 April 2009, 13:51   #3
Member
 
biffer's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: swanwick/hamble
Boat name: stormchaser
Make: custom rib
Length: 8m +
Engine: inboard/diesel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,848
i second that bassboy
__________________
biffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 April 2009, 14:23   #4
RIBnet supporter
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: West of Scotland
Make: humber
Length: 5m +
Engine: 90
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 92
exactly

you have hit the nail squarely there, by stating, - as long as they have the necessary powerboat skills - and having taught lots of dinghy senior instructors, then many of them clearly don't have the powerboat skills, barely being able to drive the thing themselves, let alone show someone the skills necessary in safetyboat work.
that said, the principle sounds great, its just the reality that lets it down.
__________________
eilean mor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 April 2009, 17:21   #5
RAD
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Essex
Boat name: Club Boat
Length: no boat
Engine: Yam 40hp
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 288
I am a DI and a PBI with safety boat so can teach it anyway.

I think it is a good idea providing the SI has done the safety boat course and has adequate power boat driving experience.

You can teach sailing without getting in a rescue boat as you can run a course with you in the boat with the students.

I would be happy to do some things for the club but after all, I paid for myself to do the instructor course, its only fair that they paid me something for the time spent teaching members.
__________________
RAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 April 2009, 02:26   #6
Member
 
SeaSkills's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Oban (mostly)
Make: Ribcraft, Humber,BWM
Length: 5m +
Engine: Outboards
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 632
Send a message via Skype™ to SeaSkills
Quote:
Originally Posted by eilean mor View Post
you have hit the nail squarely there, by stating, - as long as they have the necessary powerboat skills
Yep, agree absolutely. I've worked with some Dinghy SIs with simply dreadful powerboat skills, and with even more Powerboat Instructors who have little or no idea about how a sailing boat works (or a windsurfer, or a kayak, or any of the other craft covered by the Safety Boat course)

James Stevens (John Thorn's boss at the RYA) says in his introduction to the RYA Safety Boat Handbook "Steering a powerboat is a simple skill but manouevring a safety boat around a capsized dinghy with sailors in the water and ropes just under the water requires considerable skill". I agree with him, and I definitely want someone with very good boat handling skills at the helm when there are people (often kids) in the water

The Safety Boat course covers lots of ground; the management of teaching sailing, how to rescue various types of boats, and how to lay and recover marks for races. It's quite a technical course, and in my opinion neither Powerboat Instructors nor Dinghy Senior Instructors are properly and fully prepared for it in the current scheme. We'e being asked to choose between two poor options. I think a better solution would be to introduce a short training module which PBIs and DSIs would all be eligible to attend and earn an endorsement to their Instructor qualification so that they could teach the course
__________________
SEASKILLS TRAINING
Web; www.seaskills.co.uk
Email; info@seaskills.co.uk
Tel; 07525 012 013
SeaSkills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 April 2009, 11:39   #7
K&S
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: Riberty
Make: xs 650
Length: 6m +
Engine: suzuki 175
MMSI: 235063328
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaSkills View Post

The Safety Boat course covers lots of ground; the management of teaching sailing, how to rescue various types of boats, and how to lay and recover marks for races. It's quite a technical course, and in my opinion neither Powerboat Instructors nor Dinghy Senior Instructors are properly and fully prepared for it in the current scheme. We'e being asked to choose between two poor options. I think a better solution would be to introduce a short training module which PBIs and DSIs would all be eligible to attend and earn an endorsement to their Instructor qualification so that they could teach the course
I agree and think that the course be of a similar duration to a level 2 course. OR broken down into modules i.e. sail rescue boat, windsurf rescue etc...

I would also sugest that it SB be stricter in the types of craft and venue it can be taken or be site specific.

In my opinion it is a course that is long overdue a shake up.
__________________
K&S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 April 2009, 13:31   #8
Member
 
Doug Stormforce's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southampton
Boat name: Yoda & Obi Wan
Make: Valiant 750 & XS600
Length: 7m +
Engine: 150, 115 HP
MMSI: Various
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,031
Im not sure I would advocate anyone who has not been trained as a powerboat Instructor deliverying a powerboat course.

I agree that an SI should have a background in safetyboat work but does that equip him in powerboat training? Surely the safetyboat Instructor should be reinforcing all of the skills that have often been forgotten since at Level 2?
__________________
STORMFORCE COACHING
web - www.stormforce.biz
email - coaching@stormforce.biz
tel - 02380 231122
Doug Stormforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 April 2009, 16:26   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Margate / Ramsgate
Boat name: Ballistic
Make: Ballistic
Length: 7m +
Engine: Yam HPDI 250
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,835
In many ways i feel to effictively deliver the SB course you need to be a PBI AND a DI.

I say this as qualified in both myself, and the only person i can think of able to effectively deliver the SB course, and obviously i know a selection of PBI's and a selection of DI's. (i am trying to be objective not big headed).

This idea, of course, certianly wont see more people taking the course, it will simply reduce the amount of people able to deliver it.

Certianly the current scheme "if you hold SB you can teach it" is a shortcoming.

My view is that the course needs breaking down, a bit like the dinghy scheme was i suppose. Few saling clubs need to cover canoe rescue, for example.
__________________
Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 April 2009, 11:16   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Bristol
Make: Delta
Length: 8m +
Engine: Twin 225
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 159
I used to run the SB course for several lifeguard clubs in the Poole & Bournemouth area as they conducted safety cover for verious on water sporting events.

My personal grip with the SB award was that I felt to much time was spend trying and cover the rescues of many different types of craft. I believe that as the safety boat crew is normally the first on scene in an emergency a little more time could be included with practical first aid afloat e.g. unconscious casualty rescue & treatment of bleeding and resus in the boat.

We normally ran the course over two and a half day to include this so the students could have a couple of full emergency scenarios to try out.

I do agree that someone with a PB instructor ticket who has just passed their SB course is not really that experience or prepared to run a SB course. A PB instructor who has passed their SB and is a dingy instructor would be great but limiting it to that would exclude many fine instructors with different backgrounds.

Just my 2p worth
__________________

__________________
MikeL is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:08.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.