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Old 19 January 2007, 17:00   #11
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The RYA could also Increase the Annual Recognition fee to discourage the the schools that conduct 3 or 4 courses per year.
so what harm are these small schools doing to you then if they are only doing that amount of courses???????
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:11   #12
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Age old problem here.
Competition increases quality of service and lowers cost but up to a point where it begins to destroy it.

Would you be happy with same crew (who I am sure get a per capita share of course reg) as in RYA deciding on who should be providing licenses.
What if you were waiting on yours and they said no.

What if the amount, type and level of courses increased.
I believe that one cannot learn the level required in such a short timeframe.

I have seen some friends who have taken these courses and passed and are taking their boats out to dangerous places in dangerous conditions breaking all proper rules and they think they know it all. They hardly know the sharp end from blunt end and none (most) of them do not have radio VHF licenses.

At some stage having a cert gives a false of security... I suggest that the courses are broken down to modules and expanded with safety first and case studies investigated... The extra courses and levels will keep all happy xcept the gung ho who want to know it all it a flash..
Exactly what we need.
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:11   #13
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Hi Dave

Nothing to me or my school personally, but "if" the RYA were going to monitor Center Numbers closely they would need to be a way off discouraging centres that arent really active.

By increasing the annual recognition fee it may also encourage the average instructor with a rib to work for another school rather than setting up a new centre.

A few years ago it was much harder to set up a school, these days you can simply approach a number of trainers who will do you a set of risk assessments and a safety policy/operating procedures manual.

I don't think we are in a particular diluted area as we have an increase in boat sold every year. However when you look at the south coast its just getting stupid.

Jono
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:14   #14
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This all reads a bit like another desire to pull up the ladder after you've climbed onto the roof, and not let anyone else join you.

In my opinion (which may not be the best thought through as I haven't considered this subject for very long - only since Jono started the thread) any issue should be focused more on quality, and not quantity.

I do believe the RYA should try and do more in the way of mock student inspections where they come on a course and don't tell the centre, and I think they should continue to enforce a high standard of training. Beyond that, who really has the right to prevent the owner of a centre that measures up to their requirements to get set up, run, and issue certificates from attempting to earn a living in what is a very standard driven industry?

RYA Training is a very competetive industry as it is, and not just due to the actual number of centres competing for the work, it's due to a consumer demand for better value for money mainly (notice I didn't say lower cost!). As it's so competetive, if you're going to get involved in it on a commercial level, it usually has to be a very well thought through decision in order for you to succeed.
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:19   #15
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At some stage having a cert gives a false of security... I suggest that the courses are broken down to modules and expanded with safety first and case studies investigated... The extra courses and levels will keep all happy xcept the gung ho who want to know it all it a flash..
Exactly what we need.
I think a lot of the problem here is that there is no legal requirement to hold a "license" for using a sub 24m craft in the UK (A situation which, currently, I hope will not change!), unless you are using the vessel for commercial purposes. As there is no legal requirement, any training undertaken is usually voluntary, and as such, demand dictates supply. I don't think people would pay for training through a system they found to be particularly onerous and restrictive, unless they had to.

So, a middle ground has to be reached, where you try and offer an attractively priced option, that doesn't eat into days off/leisure time enough to cause annoyance, whilst still offering training that is of value and will boost course students knowledge. It's not a perfect system (I've yet to find a perfect system for anything!) but instead of taking it at face value, look at the reasons behind it!
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:19   #16
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This all reads a bit like another desire to pull up the ladder after you've climbed onto the roof, and not let anyone else join you.
I like the saying, but the fact is the roofs not getting much bigger but people keep climbing on.

I cant help but feeling guilty that ive to climbed on the ladder, but thats life.
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:22   #17
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By increasing the annual recognition fee it may also encourage the average instructor with a rib to work for another school rather than setting up a new centre.
Is this actually the case? I don't know the figures, but I would have thought that given the hoops you have to jump through to set up a centre, and the amount of competition out there, this is not something many instructors are doing?

I could be wrong, but I would suspect that "one man bands" with the capability, drive, and funding to find a suitable classroom, changing rooms, and launching facility for their rib and go through the process of getting RYA recogntion make up a fairly small percentage of centres out there?

I'm ready to stand corrected if your figures show me to be wrong!
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:24   #18
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Originally Posted by Jono Garton View Post
I like the saying, but the fact is the roofs not getting much bigger but people keep climbing on.


Good answer! Could we perhaps take my weak analogy further and hypothesise that inevitably, without external input, the roof will collapse?
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Old 19 January 2007, 17:30   #19
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Jimbo

I see what you saying, but its so easy to set up now, all you need is -

-A RIB
-Classroom (The RYA say a Caravan or your front room is fine)
-Risk Assessments & Safety Policy/Operating Procedures (some trainers will do these for 150)
-Insurance (which the RYA don't check anymore)

Quick visit from the RYA and your away.


If the figures carry on the way they are going in 10 years time there will be half the amount of certificates issued per a Training Centre than there was in 2002.



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Old 19 January 2007, 17:35   #20
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Of course a new centre is going to have an impact on other training centres. Simple rules of supply and demand. Why is that a reason not to grant somebody's application? "I've been established ten years, so that means you can't set up a school near me"... where's the logic?

More choice = buyers market = only the strong/good will survive.

What is wrong with a school only running 3-4 courses a year? What is to say that they are any better/worse than those who run them twice a week?

Some of these centres could be sailing clubs - who have the Powerboat Training aspect simply to keep themselves supplied with safety boat drivers, or diving clubs who don't want to pay commercial prices for the boat handlers, and decide they can make a bit of money for the club by offering PB2 courses to members.

Not that it makes a blind bit of difference to me - I'm just playing devils advocate.

Cheers, WMM
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