RYA Adbanced Commercial Endorsement

[Rogue Wave]

Has any body on here attained this ticket since June 2009 if so can they tell me what the safety content of the course/exam was.

[tim griffin]

It's in the back of your G20 /04
why do you ask ?
Tim

[Rogue Wave]

Thanks I'm aware of the RYA Powerboat logbook entries Tim, What I'm really trying to find out what the newly qualified Skippers had taken away from the course, and whether the instructors had injected any lateral thinking on safety into the RYA syllabus or real life implications . e.g iisk assesment creation, challenging unworkable procedures and improving them. dealing with a crushed vertabrae or just a couple of teeth knocked out. Procedures for breakdowns, communication with Passsengers, what is/isn't reportable to the MAIB

The safety and welfare of my passengers and colleagues is of paramount importance to me when operating a boat. I was just wondering how much that issue was hammered home, so if theres anybody out there, that's recently completed the course I'm still interested

[SeaSkills]

You have to bear in mind that the Advanced PB commercial endorsement is an assessment, not a training programme. This sort of thing should be picked up during the Advanced course and through general experience over several years of boating before someone comes along to be assessed. During the assessment there will be some checks on safety awareness but only on a "sampling" basis, it isn't feasible in the time to ask questions about everything (although having said that, if I felt that a candidate may not have quite the safety approach that I would expect, I would certainly spend more time exploring it)

[Rogue Wave]

1an Hello,

Thats understood, but it's not an answer to my question. As I have previously stated I'm very commited to safety and I'd just like to know how much the RYA is, by hearing it from a recent student.

I'm sorry to hear that you don't have enough time to cover every aspect of safety, which ones do you cover? I

Are you also saying that I go to my favourite powerboat school give em a few k walk out, or hobble if we hit a few waves wrong, a wee while later with an advanced ticket with a commercial endorsement and I've only been assessed and not trained? Is the assesment based on Navigation skills more than passenger welfare.

I guess I've just Fkkd my chances up of getting any well paid work from you



Cheers stu:

[Trailer Bloke]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Thanks I'm aware of the RYA Powerboat logbook entries Tim, What I'm really trying to find out what the newly qualified Skippers had taken away from the course, and whether the instructors had injected any lateral thinking on safety into the RYA syllabus or real life implications . e.g iisk assesment creation, challenging unworkable procedures and improving them. dealing with a crushed vertabrae or just a couple of teeth knocked out. Procedures for breakdowns, communication with Passsengers, what is/isn't reportable to the MAIB

The safety and welfare of my passengers and colleagues is of paramount importance to me when operating a boat. I was just wondering how much that issue was hammered home, so if theres anybody out there, that's recently completed the course I'm still interested

Something has to be done about standards, some of the people that I have assessed with Advanced PB commercial certs I would not even trust in a boat on their own.

I think things like simple boat handling skills, emergency procedures and common sense seem to be missing with lots of over qualified 'Skippers'

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

I guess I've just Fkkd my chances up of getting any well paid work from you

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

Are you also saying that I go to my favourite powerboat school give em a few k walk out, or hobble if we hit a few waves wrong, a wee while later with an advanced ticket with a commercial endorsement and I've only been assessed and not trained? Is the assesment based on Navigation skills more than passenger welfare.

Stuart - I'm not an examiner, so I'll leave commenting on exam specifics to the likes of Tim G, Ian W, Doug, Paul G etc.

Two paragraphs from me - one on the difference between the Advanced Course, Advanced Exam, and Commercial Endorsement, and one on aspects of an Advanced "Preparation" Course.

Courses/Exams/Paperwork:
The RYA Advanced Powerboat Course is a two day training programme, carried out an RYA Training Centre, by an Advanced PBI, or Powerboat Trainer. As a training course, and with a lot to fit in over two days when you may have leisure users looking to push their boat further, potential future skippers, and potential instructors looking to become Advanced Instructors, I certainly follow the RYA Syllabus as the bones of the course, as well as responding to specific questions/scenarios posed by me or the students, as and when they crop up. Course.

The Advanced Certificate of Competence (CoC) confusingly named "Advanced" as well, is an exam of around 4-5 hours for one candidate, during which the examiner can test any area of skippership, safety, powerboat handling and navigation knowledge. The examiner will have been appointed by the RYA from their pool of Powerboat Trainers, and Yachtmaster Examiners This exam can be taken by anyone, whether they intend to use it professionally or not. I do know a few people who have taken a Yachtmaster Exam for their own personal pride - but nobody who has done this on the Advanced CoC. I'm sure they're out there though! You must have VHF and First Aid before taking this. You do not need your Advanced Course Completion (or any other formal training for that matter) before taking this - but if often helps. Exam.

There are a number of course completion, and certificates of competence, that can, on application to the RYA and production of a few other documents, be commercially endorsed. One such is the Advanced CoC, which, if sent off with a £25 fee, ML5/ENG1 Medical, and Sea Survival Certificate, will, provided there are no issues with these items, be returned to you valid for use on commercial vessels. Paperwork.

I know you are aware of the above, and I am not patronising you - I'm posting in what is (hopefully) a logical layout, for the benefit of others reading this thread. At no point in the above do specific scenarios such as your Vertebrae incident etc specifically fit in - but the examiner will expect good answers to questions such as "are you going to run that charter from Poole to Plymouth in a Force 9 westerley?".

Advanced "Preparation" Course
Some of the better schools I work for, and of course others I don't work for, run some sort of Advanced CoC Exam Preparation course. This, if sold correctly, is entirely separate to the RYA Advanced Course, and it pretty much left to you as the Advanced Instructor with a Commercially Endorsed Advanced CoC to fill in any blanks you see fit - with guidance from the Centre Principal/Chief Instructor of course. This is not an "official" RYA thing, but preparation courses in various guise's have been around for years.

When I've done these courses, such questions do crop up, and I do ask questions of the students, for open discussion, on things like dealing with incidents at sea, what you say to the pregnant lady that's been put on your Rib by a charter boss that insists "it'll be fine" and what you do when you start taking on water mid course - you can't cover everything, and there's never a right or wrong answer to my mind. Discussion on these topics does help raise awareness though, and propagate good practice.

I would welcome your thoughts on these specific incidents you're mentioning, as it's always good (with no names of course) to have real life examples to draw on in training.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Trailer Bloke

common sense seem to be missing

Simon - whilst I can't disagree - this is something that you can't teach, and it's also very difficult to examine properly. Not sure what sort of solution there is for this one?

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

since June 2009

Stu - any reason for this particular time frame?