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Old 15 December 2009, 09:28   #61
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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
The way I understand is is none of us can gain commercial experience until we have a ticket. If you will not give anyone a ticket until they have massed thousands of hours of commercial experience then there is a problem.

Pulling up the ladder behind you now that you are qualified and have had the chance to use those qualifications to gain more experience might secure you work but will not help the offshore/commercial industry. Employers need to understand what they get when the take on a newly qualified skipper, expecting him to know everything they know after their lifetimes experience in the industry would be naive.
This is something I agree with quite strongly, and have discussed before. It doesn't mean the existing routes to becoming a Commercially Endorsed Skipper are perfect - there is always room for change and development, but it does help identify why employers might be choosing people with, for example, the RYA/MCA Advanced CoC Commercially Endorsed, and then perhaps being frustrated by them if no job specific training has been offered.
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Old 15 December 2009, 12:12   #62
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- beyond the basics, modern 4-stroke engines with a high level of electronic control are not suited to owner maintenance. If something goes wrong, it is likely that it will need to be connected up to a computer diagnostic programme and workshop facilities.

- diesel engines are more suited to user maintenance, but even with diesels when we looked at a course to go beyond the basics we thought it would look more like an apprenticeship for a mechanic and wasn't feasible.

I agree unforunately diesel engines are now as electronicly controlled as 4 stokes and neuvo 2 strokes. which doesn't make for a quick fix
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Old 15 December 2009, 12:27   #63
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Just a thought, why not have new Commercial Skippers 'on Probation' for a number of hours and signed off after every job

Then Commercial organisations would know that that the Skipper was newley qualified and maybe take extra care in breifing on the task in hand

Very rarely do skippers on thier CV mention real experience only the Qualifications. Its only when I assess them do they mention that they are a coxwain of a lifeboat or have worked in the North Sea

Helpful Comments could also be put into the log if a skipper was lacking experience or skill in certain area


Iabsolutely agree with you. For the record that's exactly what happens in a seamans discharge book. It's essentially a Resume, all your Q's are listed and every ship you work on has the masters comments and what you did and an official ships stamp. It's supplied an administred by the MCA and costs 90 quid more if you want it sharpish

When you join the ship you stump it up and everyone knows how much BS was on your CV. It also has two other very fine qualities, if you flash it to an airport check in desk operator, then generally give you a bit of leeway on your baggage allowance also it gives an indisbutable record of your time offshore to qualify for Seamans Tax
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Old 15 December 2009, 14:22   #64
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  • Keeping commercial skippers informed in a simple way can be done by signing up to the MCA mailings at http://nds.coi.gov.uk
I forgot to say on this subject too - I have suggested to the RYA that this link, and details on subscribing to MAIB reports, are included in the letter accompanying all commercial certificates issued.
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Old 15 December 2009, 15:05   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
  • Keeping commercial skippers informed in a simple way can be done by signing up to the MCA mailings at http://nds.coi.gov.uk
I forgot to say on this subject too - I have suggested to the RYA that this link, and details on subscribing to MAIB reports, are included in the letter accompanying all commercial certificates issued.
Ok, that's good news!

Commercial skippere should be on the case with MAIB reports and I hope the RYA take up your suggestions soon.

Putting aside our personal disregard for each other I have to say tha's a good effort
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Old 15 December 2009, 15:07   #66
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Ok, that's good news!

Commercial skippere should be on the case with MAIB reports and I hope the RYA take up your suggestions soon.

Putting aside our personal disregard for each other I have to say tha's a good effort
Apparently not new - I'd never heard of it, but it seems to be from the Government information dept, so it's logical to assume it's been around a while.

I don't have any disregard for you, but I suppose that answers a potential question.
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Old 15 December 2009, 17:49   #67
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I'm nearly there One last question

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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post

Don't try passing the buck to the RYA, they manage the generic ticket to drive boats not the specifics of each and every job, it is up to employers to train their staff or ensure they are familiar with the specific craft and what is role required of them.
I nderstand that kind of plain talking, so would it be fair to say that this sort of

statement wouldn't apply



Workboats and other commercial craft
Commercially endorsed RYA certificates are widely accepted within the MCA's codes of practice for small vessels in commercial use, and by local harbour authority bye laws.

RYA certificates are a nationally accepted standard and are used by charter angling boats, small passenger launches, thrill ride operators, harbour patrol launches, construction site safety boats and corporate charter vessels. In many areas they are accepted as equivalent to local boatmans licences.

Generally, there is an RYA qualification suitable for most workboats of up to 24 metres in length and carrying up to 12 passengers.

Contact Us

Article Published: May 19, 2009 13:29 by

RYA

cos it says to me that I can take this ticket and I'm good for driving a thrill ride boat

quote from Jimbo re response from the RYA

The rib rides are outside of RYA training activities which is why we are only assisting.



Again that to me sems to be in conflict with the above!

As you will no doubt be aware we have been helping the MCA in publicising the issues with “Rib Rides” and back injuries on these type of events. The MCA is also currently working on guidance for activities such as this.

But also brings me back to my original question which was can anybody tell me what the safety content of a commercial powerboat ticketi s. 6 APBI's (inc me) on this forum 3 of them being examiners didn't mention this, (Dougie did give an answer but it wasn't very inspiring for me) I can only presume thats because it's still work in progress on the RYA part and hasn't come out yet. In any safety culture that's a poor performance!

However if this thread has helped speed that process by you highlighting it then well done you are and I am impressed that you took the time to get stuck in. I hope it helps you too raise your profile within the association.

Im leaving in about an hour to go offshore so i may not be on t'internet for a while. probably a good thing as I'm wasting far too much time on this site
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Old 15 December 2009, 18:25   #68
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Stu

As I said (and you quoted me)

the RYA, they manage the generic ticket to drive boats not the specifics of each and every job.

In answer to your repeated question- work in progress.

Now get your arse offshore and stop wasting your time.
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Old 16 December 2009, 04:23   #69
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RYA certificates are a nationally accepted standard and are used by charter angling boats, small passenger launches, thrill ride operators, harbour patrol launches, construction site safety boats and corporate charter vessels. In many areas they are accepted as equivalent to local boatmans licences.

cos it says to me that I can take this ticket and I'm good for driving a thrill ride boat

quote from Jimbo re response from the RYA

The rib rides are outside of RYA training activities which is why we are only assisting.
Stu - I think this comes down to phraseology. Rib Rides (and any sort of commercial work) is outside of RYA Training. The Syllabus for the exam, is laid down by the MCA - they set what is and isn't useful for this particular qualification. They then authorise the RYA to carry out these exams according to MCA standards. It is then up to the employer to be satisfied the qualification is appropriate, and what, if any, further training is required. That said - the RYA Syllabi and Preparation courses at RYA schools will logically tend towards covering the content tested in the exam.

Safety tested on the advanced exam (other than the whole exam being designed to test you are a safe boater)
  • Candidates are often asked to give a safety brief to the examiner and other candidates, as though they were passengers. This would include the location of safety kit and relevant information, how to conduct themselves during the trip, and what to do if something goes wrong.
  • The examiner will often throw scenarios at the candidates, and, either shorebased or afloat, ask them what they would do in various situations.
  • Boathandling and seamanship skills are tested, and if the weather is rough, so is rough weather handling. If the weather isn't, and in any case, the candidate will be questioned on the specifics of their logged mileage, and asked how they would cope with rough weather.
  • All candidates must have a VHF and First Aid certificate prior to taking the exam.

A vague answer in some ways I suppose - but by now we've established no exam is totally the same, they can be slightly tailored to test the candidates on their proposed line of work, and they can't incorporate every possible scenario under the sun.
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Old 16 December 2009, 14:26   #70
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OK I understand know

Thanks guys for taking the time, to explaing it to me. The last two replies will do for me Gotta go the sea's calling.......very loudly in fact, it's a bit blowy
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