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Old 12 December 2009, 15:38   #11
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1an Hello,

Thats understood, but it's not an answer to my question. As I have previously stated I'm very commited to safety and I'd just like to know how much the RYA is, by hearing it from a recent student.

I'm sorry to hear that you don't have enough time to cover every aspect of safety, which ones do you cover? I

Are you also saying that I go to my favourite powerboat school give em a few k walk out, or hobble if we hit a few waves wrong, a wee while later with an advanced ticket with a commercial endorsement and I've only been assessed and not trained? Is the assesment based on Navigation skills more than passenger welfare.

I guess I've just Fkkd my chances up of getting any well paid work from you



Cheers stu:
Hi Stu,

Sorry - I can see I missed the point a little in only picking up on the Commerciual Endorsement aspect. I'll try again ...

I hope we're all committed to safety. This is my 30th year with the RNLI, and it's certainly pretty important to me.

The RYA is a very broad church, and the way that subjects are taught is always a bit of a cocktail made up of the experience of the instructor (and the candidate), the boat and the area, the conditions on the day, what the candidate hopes to do following the training - and just about every other variable you can think of to throw in.

I can really only speak for myself here. I try to teach and encourage my candidates to develop an attitude to safety that is based on principles rather than examples or specifics. I think it's important for them to consider all of the things that they can think of that might go wrong (and I'll add in any obvious ones they miss) and build strategies to deal with them should the worst happen. I certainly wouldn't want to think that their reaction would stop at "Bloody hell, we didn't cover this on the course!"

So we throw in lots of surprise scenarios during our courses: for example "Purely for exercise purposes, there's smoke pouring out from under the engine cover. What are you going to do?", or "Talk me through what you'd do if one of your passengers collapsed unconscious here?", or "What's the worst thing that you can think of going wrong at the moment?"

Risk assessments are important, and we include those of course, but we don't expect that we'll anticipate very possible problem and we also want people to be able to think on their feet

To be fair, I think you've misread my post too. My point about not covering every aspect of safety referred to exams, not training courses.

I can't say what would happen if you went to your favourite school, crossed their palms with silver etc etc, but you would only pass with me if you were up to standard. If someone is good enough and comes to me for assessment but has never been on a preparatory course, they need to be able to evidence twice as much experience and I would certainly be curious to see how they got on, but if they're good enough (including safe enough), they'll pass.

And wherever did I get a reputation for paying well?
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Old 12 December 2009, 15:51   #12
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reply to Jimbo

Try reading the MAIB reports plenty of names mentioned there

So the answer is no the RYA does not specifically cover the danger of spine compression injuries in it's process for churning out a commercial boat driver

It would appear from the comments made by Simeon (Trailer Bloke) a long term corporate operator that the result of all this training is inadequate.

I would still just love to here from a Stoodent on what they actually learnt about safety or for that matter Boat maintenance checks, fueling regs.
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Old 12 December 2009, 16:00   #13
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Originally Posted by SeaSkills View Post
Hi Stu,

And wherever did I get a reputation for paying well?
Don't worry I won't tell the rest of Scotland : I don't know how to link to a specific post but this is what you posted when Andy F was ofering some work so I presumed you were working on offshore rates. Youre reply to the safety stuff made a lot more sense to me..I'll have to think about it before I reply

Thanks
Sorry GoodGuys, don't like to rain on your pareade but this does not qualify as "quite well paid". The contracts we are managing at the moment are paying very significantly more than that. I think my skippers would throw me in if I suggested they work for 150 per day. Might be worth your while renegotiating with your clients
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Old 12 December 2009, 16:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave View Post
1an Hello,

Thats understood, but it's not an answer to my question. As I have previously stated I'm very commited to safety and I'd just like to know how much the RYA is, by hearing it from a recent student.

I'm sorry to hear that you don't have enough time to cover every aspect of safety, which ones do you cover? I

Are you also saying that I go to my favourite powerboat school give em a few k walk out, or hobble if we hit a few waves wrong, a wee while later with an advanced ticket with a commercial endorsement and I've only been assessed and not trained? Is the assesment based on Navigation skills more than passenger welfare.

I guess I've just Fkkd my chances up of getting any well paid work from you



Cheers stu:
The Advanced Course is one thing the exam is separate from an independent examiner sourced either by the candidate or the school.
No decent school would put forward a candidate if they did not think the candidate had a strong chance of passing. Pre exam work ups are excellent to hone the skills and fill in any gaps as Jimbo has already said I am not a fan of schools that offer zero to hero courses that you mention in your scenario , they may have the tickets but not the experience and that you can't buy.

You are a RYA Advanced Instructor surely you know this already so not sure why you are asking about the RYA view.Ian is quite right safety is a big part of the exam but not every situation can be covered but safe practice and management of the boat and it's crew is one thing we are looking for.
The Injuries you mention would have been covered on a First Aid course a prerequisite for the Advanced Powerboat Course . Regarding breakdowns common sense is required to keep the boat and crew safe at all times by what ever action is appropriate for the conditions but the VHF DSC course will cover summoning assistance via either May Day or Pan Pan also a prerequisite for the Advanced Powerboat Course .
STCW95 run courses on customer care someone could be a great boat handler navigator but have poor people skills this is not a requirement for the Advanced course or the Exam .

Not sure where this thread is going and why the questions
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Old 12 December 2009, 17:37   #15
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Stu - any reason for this particular time frame?
I'd speculate that its realated to the fact that the MAIB report on the Celtic Pioneer accident was published at the end of May... its surely not a coincidence that this resulted in a compression fracture to a vertebrae and this is another part of the question...

So I suggest that at least part of what Stu is asking is: "What has changed in the RYA Advanced training (or examination) since then? (or what were you already covering anyway to mitigate the risk and respond to such incidents)."
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Old 12 December 2009, 17:44   #16
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You might be a windbag but your'e on the case I've waited 6 months to pop the question.
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Old 12 December 2009, 17:47   #17
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It's not going where I wanted it to go because I'm not getting the answers from new commercially endorsed Skippers. I only asked one question, from a specific group of people and so far I haven't got an answer

Why The questions?

As an RYA Powewrboat instructor I am intesested in what is happening in practice and not theory. Having said that I haven't been looking for instructor work for over a year.

As a member of the RYA I'm intereated that my association is doing it's utmost to improve commercial powerboating safety.

As a commercial boat driver I sometimes am consulted to recommend people and levels of qualifications to my employers so it's good to know what people are coming out of the courses with. Also as a commercial boat driver it would be good to know what my new colleagues have been trained in. I'm also interested in wether the RYA have acted on the recommendations made to them by the MAIB re spinal injuries in 2009

I couldn't agree with you and Jimbo more re the Hero to Zero course, does this mean that yourself and Jimbo (i know you can't answer on his behalf) would not offer such a package?

I accept that the treatment of the injuries I mention would be covered on an RYA 1st aid course, but I'm far, far more concerned about prevention rather than cure so I'm interested in finding out how much input is put into helping new drivers avoid inflicting those injuries.

Re the communication issues, I wasn't referring to Customer Care Skills as such but the communication with passengers in an emergency/breakdown. I also accept that you can get get on the radio if you had a breakdown but it's a lot cooler if you can spot an issue before or whilst it's happening.
and prevent the breakdown.

I'd still love to hear from a recently qualified boat driver.

BTW for the record I don't think im a fantastic boat driver, everytime I think I'm adequate the sea has a way or reminding me that I'm not!
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Old 12 December 2009, 17:54   #18
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Quote:
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BTW for the record I don't think im a fantastic boat driver, everytime I think I'm adequate the sea has a way or reminding me that I'm not!
I agree
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Old 12 December 2009, 18:09   #19
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At least smebody agrees with me on something!
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Old 12 December 2009, 19:46   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave View Post
Don't worry I won't tell the rest of Scotland : I don't know how to link to a specific post but this is what you posted when Andy F was ofering some work so I presumed you were working on offshore rates. Youre reply to the safety stuff made a lot more sense to me..I'll have to think about it before I reply

Thanks
Sorry GoodGuys, don't like to rain on your pareade but this does not qualify as "quite well paid". The contracts we are managing at the moment are paying very significantly more than that. I think my skippers would throw me in if I suggested they work for 150 per day. Might be worth your while renegotiating with your clients
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Well spotted indeed! I'm afraid, though, that instructing work doesn't pay as well as the commercial work I was referring to in that particular post. Although, to be fair, I still wouldn't expect to get away with paying instructors less than 200 a day ... thanks for keeping quiet about it, don't want everyone to know
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