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Old 25 November 2009, 04:48   #1
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Qualifications for Demonstration rides

Hi all!
I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and am ready to be shot at... but here goes!

Can anyone tell me what qualifications are 1) legally required and/or 2) advisable for anyone wishing to demonstrate a boat on behalf of a manufacturer?

Are the qualifications different if the driver/skipper is an emplyee of the manufacturer and the boat belongs to the manufacturer as opposed to a customer boat / random (friendly) driver / skipper?

The thing is I've so far had a different answer from everyone I've spoken to, and I fully expect the wise old heads on here to come up with one voice....?
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Old 25 November 2009, 05:00   #2
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I am not the wise head you refer to but this is I believe the MCA approach which I enquired about recently:-

Any vessel that goes to sea, that is under 24 metres and carrying less than 12 passengers that is NOT a pleasure vessel requires coding. There are a few exceptions to this, but this is the general rule. The definition of a pleasure vessel is:

""pleasure vessel" means-

(a) any vessel which at the time it is being used is:

(i)

(aa) in the case of a vessel wholly owned by an individual or individuals, used only for the sport or pleasure of the owner or the immediate family or friends of the owner; or

(bb) in the case of a vessel owned by a body corporate, used only for sport or pleasure and on which the persons on board are employees or officers of the body corporate, or their immediate family or friends; and

(ii) on a voyage or excursion which is one for which the owner does not receive money for or in connection with operating the vessel or carrying any person, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion; or

(b) any vessel wholly owned by or on behalf of a members' club formed for the purpose of sport or pleasure which, at the time it is being used, is used only for the sport or pleasure of members of that club or their immediate family, and for the use of which any charges levied are paid into club funds and applied for the general use of the club; and

(c) in the case of any vessel referred to in paragraphs (a) or (b) above no other payments are made by or on behalf of users of the vessel, other than by the owner.

In this definition "immediate family" means-

in relation to an individual, the spouse or civil partner of the individual, and a relative of the individual or the individual's spouse or civil partner; and "relative" means brother, sister, ancestor or lineal descendant;"


2. What payment is acceptable?

Payment is not acceptable, other than as a contribution to the direct expenses of the operation of the vessel incurred during the voyage or excursion.

Not sure this will give you the answer but other knowledgeable will be along soon
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Old 25 November 2009, 05:22   #3
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You will probably find this of interest:

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...outhampton.pdf

p16 refers to the question of whether a boat used in this way (I believe you are discussing a similar use) is a pleasure vessel. The MAIB appear to believe it is. Therefore my understanding would be that it does not require any specific qualifications from a legal perspective. That said event organisers, following the southampton incident, may impose their own requirements and insurers may also have a view.

In terms of whats sensible... you are at the risk of drumming up the old qualifications v's experience arguments - but if I were defining the rules for my organisation/event I would probably apply the same approach as commercial coding (not necessarily right - but there is a logic, and a defence if it all goes wrong!). So good conditions, daylight, within 3 miles from dep. point - PB2 minimum. Beyond that ABP or similar.
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Old 25 November 2009, 08:00   #4
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Most small dealers I know work on the basis of

Demo boat does not have to be coded
Dealer/driver shoudl be L2
Dealer/driver should have apropriate experience.

My own thought i is that it is pretty straight forward and inexpensive to commercialy endorse the Level 2 which just covers you a bit better if there is ever a problme.

If however you a freelance driver putting yourself out to dealers to run their demos then I would say you need to be qualified as per the code.
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Old 25 November 2009, 08:08   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egor_1066 View Post
The thing is I've so far had a different answer from everyone I've spoken to, and I fully expect the wise old heads on here to come up with one voice....?
I reckon that Doug has summed it up pretty well.

Bear in mind that PB2 is a very basic entry-level qualification. You also need to make sure that anyone giving a demo of your boat has the aptitude and ability to show it at its best. That's a somewhat rarer skill set!
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Old 25 November 2009, 08:24   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
Most small dealers I know work on the basis of

Demo boat does not have to be coded
Dealer/driver shoudl be L2
Dealer/driver should have apropriate experience.

My own thought i is that it is pretty straight forward and inexpensive to commercialy endorse the Level 2 which just covers you a bit better if there is ever a problme.

If however you a freelance driver putting yourself out to dealers to run their demos then I would say you need to be qualified as per the code.
Summed up very well as JK say's I would however add to this that if freelance driving the liability insurance be taken out as well!!
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Old 25 November 2009, 08:46   #7
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Ignoring legal and insurance requirements, I would only hire Advanced ticket holders with at least a First Aid certificate to do demos, with relevant experience in the type of boat being driven and I would get them to take me out and show their capability as well - too much? Maybe but I would sleep better if anything happened!
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Old 25 November 2009, 15:09   #8
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Thanks Guys... plenty of food for thought; there certainly seems to be a general direction consensus anyway, and I will bear it all in mind.
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Old 25 November 2009, 15:31   #9
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I have arranged insurance for a couple of small boat/ RIB dealers and not one insurer insisted on any qualification for demos. Common sense however would suggest either a good amount of experiance/ trust if the person is known or the suggested tickets if not - or ideally a combination of both !
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