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Old 28 April 2008, 15:18   #1
K&S
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Q For Instructors

Hi,
When running the Intermediate course what sort of distance do you cover to satisfy the course criteria? (Working on the 1:6 ratio using 2 boats)

Would a journey of say 20 Miles with an over night stay then a return journey of about 20 miles, using a different course, the next day be an acceptable distance?

I have looked in the new Instructor Handbook but no mention of actual acceptable distances, Min or Max

What do you do?
Many thanks
K&S
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Old 29 April 2008, 02:40   #2
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K&S

There is no set or recommended distance and it is possible to run a very good Intermediate course without necessarilly going very far. The key with the intermediate course is to develop the skills and competenece for the student to be able to plan and execute a coastal passage. The techniques and knowledge an Instructor is trying to develop do not need a long passage to be achieved.

Most schools are limited to operating within 3 miles of a Nominated Deprature Point anyway so a 20 mile passage is unfeasible. Areas like the solent or large estuaries or harbours give rise to larger operating areas or a coded craft gives a bit more flexibility - but of course only with a commercially endorsed Advanced Instructor.

In the example you give it could be that this gives rise to a fun and exciting course with the longer passage being a great element for students but I would be keen for it not to be seen as a necessary element of the course.

In summary I would say (as ever) it is really down to the injenuity of the Instructor to create a fun and challenging course within a set area. It is totally achievable.

You mention 1:6 however personally though I always run a 1:3 ratio as much of the learning occurs with the Instructor alongside the students in the boat discussing various subjects and picking up on teaching points as they arise. This can only occur 50% of the time without such a person on board.

Hope this helps, feel free to raise any other questions

Regards

Paul
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Old 30 April 2008, 06:12   #3
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I would agree with what Paul has said, we also follow the 1:3 idea.

To give you an example courses from our Southampton Centre do about 15 mile round trip on day 1 and a slightly longer route on day 2.

At our Algrave centre we have not yet run the intermeadite course (as its a new cente) but when we do we will complete a 30 mile passage on one of the days as that how far we need to go to get to some intresting pilotage. The other day will be a much more localised (10 mile) passage.

It really comes down to the students aspirations and them achieving the syllabus.
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Old 30 April 2008, 07:54   #4
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Hi, thanks for the replies.
Interesting that you both work 1:3. I can see the benefits and buy no means questioning that. I would have thought from a commercial point of view 6:1 would be better?

I know from my own experience as a pupil I did enjoy doing the prep in the classroom and all the associated teaching points that arise from that.
Putting our new skills into practice on the water was a real feeling of achievement and the fact that there wasnít an instructor looking over our every move heightened the feeling of achievement, it also made you very aware of your actions and possible outcomes.
So not being supervised was learning by discovery and a chance to sound our experiences off an instructor which if supervised constantly might not have been experienced until back on our own boat with nobody to feedback to us on our experience.

Would be interested to know if you still apply the 1:3 ratio for advanced.

Its funny how after doing your instructor course and being so focused on your personal ability, knowledge oh and of passing  that you donít remember / havenít got time to ask or question how to run such courses. Then when you do remember you end up wondering if you should ask such questions on such a forum at the risk of making an ass of yourself in front of more experienced instructors.
As a sailing & windsurfing Instructor I have to say that it is pretty much the way I have left all the coaching courses. Great feeling of achievement and excitement about all the new courses to run but when the glow goes and you start to think what and how your going to do it a new set of questions flood your brain lol.

So thanks again
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Old 30 April 2008, 10:51   #5
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Another vote for 1:3 from me, Advanced too. Hopefully, I instruct in a way that makes the students feel they are responsible for their actions and the safety of the boat whilst being always on hand to advise and instruct - and step in if really necessary. During the night passage of the advanced course I think two boats would be a definite disadvantage, it would be hard to have both boats monitored correctly, in my view. I have had students who were all over the place and that would have been a nightmare in the dark with two boats!

You are spot on with the difference between taking/passing your instructors course and the first time you have to face students and pass on all that knowledge to them. I was lucky, I was on the instructors course with a very experienced instructor in other areas and he asked lots of appropriate questions which were very enlightening.
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Old 30 April 2008, 15:42   #6
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I have run a couple of 6:1 courses but have now decided not to in the future it can be done but the organisation must be right and communication also . Forget the profit margins and go for quality instead as others have said the students get more from the course if they have the Instructor with them the hardest part was seeing if all the nav excercises/techniques worked and making sure I gave all the students enough time for coaching /teaching.

You don't need to go far just make it interesting ,mix and match the nav from trad to handheld gps to plotter, make sure all the students have a go at each there is plenty to do.
The overnight trip might be exciting but it's an extra cost to you and the students . Which ever way you plan to run your course have fun and be prepared to make changes if things don't work out .
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Old 01 May 2008, 11:42   #7
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I have run quite a few adv courses over the years with 2 boats, particualrly in the nineties. What we tend to do now is run a 2 boat course with one instructor and bring a second instructor in for the night nav.
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Old 08 May 2008, 22:56   #8
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Tried an intermediate once with 6 students....geez never again. We only do 1-3 for both intermediate and advanced.

For the passage plan on the intermediate, rather than a long passage in straight lines we add as many into and out of ports and harbours as possible so although I suppose the route is about 50 miles round trip theres lots to do on it.
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Old 13 May 2008, 11:15   #9
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6:1.....madness.....
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Old 13 May 2008, 13:36   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon View Post
6:1.....madness.....
lol ... wasn't me that came up with the ratio
Anyway we have now done the and it turned out to be a bit of a course for one reason or another.

brief summary of the weekend

While giving a safety brief in the marina and explaining the use and location of all equipment we turned on the vhf and monitored for a bit before carrying out a radio check .....

All Ships, All Ships ........ this is Clyde Coast Guard .......oh hear we go lol


Anyway long story short first exercise turned into a real life find the body.

All very impressive for the students being first on the scene soon to be accompanied by lifeboat rib, police rib and then the RAF Sea King ... dont ever remember seeing one at such a close range before ... very impresive!

Anyway the Sea King found the Injured person almost instantly , im guessing he had heat seeking equipment or maybe just a better view.


So First day was slightly delayed and ended up being a long.

Second day F6
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