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Old 08 May 2012, 19:01   #31
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SDG

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So how was this identified? If by MCA inspections then your last point is surely invalid as the system clearly works. If by examiners during the YM exams then clearly the issue is with the syllabus and or the instructors.
No it was not specifically spotted by MCA inspections but was painfully apparent to lots of people. You only have to look at the questions asked on this forum by commercial skippers and full time professional boat owners/operators to see that there was a gap in their training.

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Why penalise the Skippers that DO know their job and the regulations instead of 're-educating' those that don't?
I don't think 31 plus vat and a few hours of their time really penalises skippers. If they already know it all they will whizz through the course quickly. However insisting that all skipper have a MCA CoC as earlier suggested would penalise all skippers.

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But with no practical experience in the commercial world or with passengers except the other course members?
New entrants to the industry have to start somewhere, they can't all be as good as you! They will only get experience in the commercial world by working in it.


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Also from practical experience I have found that someone who has just left a zero to hero course with their head filled with dreams of walking into a high paying command job are usually the worst.
Not in my experience. I find that the vast majority of newly qualified fast track student are very aware of their lack of experience and are desperate to put some more "miles" under their belt.

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best crew/Skippers tend to be those who have grown up around boats or started as deck hands and then worked their way up, taking the exams as needed.
I totally agree, and now they will have to take a PPR exam and in most cases they will benefit from it because it will teach them things that they don't simply learn by growing up around boats.

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I stand by my view that this is simply a way for the RYA and it's training organisations to extract more money from the licence holders.
Each to their own views! It seems however we both agree that more robust training is better and neither of us want it to be too expensive. Shame the RYA had to introduce such a cheap course that fills a gap in the existing training regime eh!
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Old 10 May 2012, 08:27   #32
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SDG

No it was not specifically spotted by MCA inspections but was painfully apparent to lots of people. You only have to look at the questions asked on this forum by commercial skippers and full time professional boat owners/operators to see that there was a gap in their training.
So no actual quantifiable data to justify it then? Unfortunately those who ask questions are less likely to have an 'incident' as the fact they have asked clearly demonstrates that they have realised a knowledge gap and are trying to resolve that.

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I don't think 31 plus vat and a few hours of their time really penalises skippers. If they already know it all they will whizz through the course quickly.
More expense for a start. Makes the renewal around 80 now?

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However insisting that all skipper have a MCA CoC as earlier suggested would penalise all skippers.
Except those with MCA CoC of course...

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New entrants to the industry have to start somewhere, they can't all be as good as you! They will only get experience in the commercial world by working in it.
Yes, but start as deckhands or Mates and learn the job to gain the experience. Not expect to jump straight in to a Skipper's position as many do - I'm sure I don't need to name the schools that fill peoples heads with the seas are paved with gold expectations.

I never said I was good. Just know my job and being a perfectionist anything less than perfect I can improve on.

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Not in my experience. I find that the vast majority of newly qualified fast track student are very aware of their lack of experience and are desperate to put some more "miles" under their belt.
As a trainer or as an employer? Certainly not my experience, nor that of the company I do most of my work for. Actually finding people who want to WORK and learn after the first few days novelty has worn off is very difficult.

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Each to their own views! It seems however we both agree that more robust training is better and neither of us want it to be too expensive. Shame the RYA had to introduce such a cheap course that fills a gap in the existing training regime eh!
Shame maybe that the course isn't or hasn't been properly taught or examined so this new course wasn't necessary.

Why not have a brief re- examination of the whole syllabus for every five year renewal? Sure that would sort out a lot more of the problems!

Anyway as you said each to their own views and like you I shan't be changing mine any time soon

SDG
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