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Old 19 November 2011, 16:28   #1
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Passenger Boat Association

Hi everyone,

We are in the process of setting up a rib operation on Loch Lomond.

We have received a representation from the Passenger Boat Association in respect of our license application that implies that RIB operations are unsafe. As a commercial entity we are surprised that such a professional organisation is making such a statement in it's trade capacity without even discussing matters with us.

Has anyone come accross anything similar?

If anyone would like to see the representaion please PM me.
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Old 19 November 2011, 16:42   #2
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Officially -- according to the MCA, 12 passengers maximum, is not classed as passengers, untill you go over 12 passengers then that is passenger transport.

What is the need, send me the info and will slag off for you..

pete
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Old 19 November 2011, 17:18   #3
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Passenger Boat Association

We want to operate a simple rib operation on Loch Lomond.

The Passenger Boat Association has responded in respect of concerns of one of it's members.
They identify that there are a number of points that deem RIB operations unsafe and urge the licencing authority to

'recognise the significant risks associated with the operation of RIBS, both crewed and hired........ The very worst situation of cours is a serious incident and/or fatality which tarnishes all of us no matter what our role, responsility and interest.'

We recognise that our rib operation will operate from a regulated pier and has considered all of the risk and safety factors involved in such an operation. As an aside we wish to operate hire vessels from a separate location.

Is the operation of RIB's associated with 'significant' risk other than that of any other marine activity of of a similar nature?
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Old 20 November 2011, 06:35   #4
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Mark,

That sounds like the least logical argument I have ever heard against RIBs, presumably they are worried about direct competition with their own member.

I can't think of any reason to suggest that RIBs are intrinsically more dangerous - but if the suggestion is "thrill rides" then perhaps at a push you could argue that they are (although its thrill rides that are the problem not the type of vessel). You are presumably still constrained to normal LLATNPA speed limits.

If the licensing authority "recognise the significant risks associated with the operation of RIBS," then presumably they would feel obliged to remove their three ribs from service? There are no specific or additional requirements for the registration or management of "public" RIBs on the loch, and no qualification requirements - which all suggest that in general the NPA don't consider them fundamentally a bigger issue. I can see that any "bareboat hire fleet" could raise questions about competence etc. However if, as is common for bareboat charter you insisted on a PB2 qualification then you would already be ensuring that the skippers were more qualified than many on the loch - potentially providing well maintained safe boats at sensible prices and encouraging competent operation might reduce the number of people using ebay specials with 40 yr old engines, no kill cords etc - resulting in enhanced safety for all.

Based on the second part of the "argument", I'd have thought they would much rather see a carefully managed RIB operation than some poorly run alternative.

If your application is open to public consultation - then please let me know how I can comment.
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Old 20 November 2011, 07:05   #5
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You're not wrong, P. If the National Park Rangers need to dispose of their risky RIBs, then I for one will be ready to avail of a knockdown bargain, I rather fancy the look of the Brigadier..., see attached pic.

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If your application is open to public consultation - then please let me know how I can comment.
You'll need to send your CV, P. There's a screening process
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Old 20 November 2011, 07:32   #6
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I would be asking for the association to evidence their stAtements that Rib operations are unsafe. Also can they justify why all rescue services use ribs? Accidents can happen in any water based activity and if u provide qualified helms, inspected boats and operate safely I can only see this as they are afraid of competition
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Old 20 November 2011, 11:59   #7
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Mark- Just looking at PBA website and I assume this is the one who has made a representation-

http://www.passengerboats.co.uk/BoatTrips


I note they have RIB operators listed as members and also offer a SAFETY GUIDANCE FOR RIB OPERATORS (members only)- I guess this will be the RYA/MCA written work we can all access.

I cannot see how they can make a written representation to prevent another operator commencing work, surely this is a fairness in competition issue.
It is a shame it appears a body set up to support persons in the industry does not do that. My membership of the PCA(professional charter association) has been the opposite and offers total support to all users.
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Old 20 November 2011, 13:14   #8
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Quote:
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You're not wrong, P. If the National Park Rangers need to dispose of their risky RIBs, then I for one will be ready to avail of a knockdown bargain, I rather fancy the look of the Brigadier..., see attached pic.
Willk, I believe it was recently vandalised whilst on its "mooring"... I'm sure its fixable, but really you would be doing them a favour taking it away...

Quote:
You'll need to send your CV, P. There's a screening process
Ah, you see that's the issue with public consultation... ...they open up feedback to any old Tom, Dick or Harry... ...if you don't manage that very carefully it could almost resemble a democracy and we know that is not a good idea!
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Old 21 November 2011, 12:37   #9
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Following correspondence with the Passenger Boat Association yesterday, they have now issued a statement to the licensing authority advising that they had 'no detailed knowledge' of our application. We now consider the matter closed.


For information the Licensing Authority are Argyll and Bute Council.

Thanks to the rib.net community for messages of support on the matter.
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