Newbie

[RobRainford]

Hi Guys

Just come across your forum luckily as I am looking into purchasing/using a RIB on the Manchester Ship Canal, this would be commercially, i have access to hire one if needs be but my main query lies with obtaining the appropriate boatmaster license to use it.

I have had a search around the information available but cant seem to make head or tail of my requirements and where i fit in with the regs. Any ideas of a cost/duration/requirements?

Cheers

[willk]

Hi Rob and welcome to the forum

Maybe you could outline what you want to do with the RIB and then someone will have a better idea what you'll need to do...

[Chris Caton]

hi Rob, try Hoylake Sailing School, Welcome to hss.ac.uk in Hoylake or Safe Water Training, Powerboat Training Centre, Safe Water Training Sea School Ltd., 68 Victoria Parade, New Brighton, Wirral, CH45 2PH, North West England | Safe water Training in New Brighton, both offer commercial training / assessments and will give you good advice

[RobRainford]

Originally Posted by willk

Hi Rob and welcome to the forum

Maybe you could outline what you want to do with the RIB and then someone will have a better idea what you'll need to do...

I am undertaking a tree and invasive weed survey along the canal and need waterside access to a lot of the banks, the original plan was to use a boat provided by MSCC but that is slow and expensive, i can hire a RIB for this task which is quicker, cheaper and usable on my own if possible.

[willk]

Interesting. There are a few Invasive Brummie Weeds on here too

You are faced with choices.

If you want to go completely above board, then I think you'll need Powerboat Level 2 Commercially Endorsed. The catch is, you'll also need a boat that is allowed to conduct commercial activity - licensed in some way - a local member will know the area better. With that comes commercial insurance, etc., etc.

You COULD just hire a local commercial boat with a skipper. You should get a very good deal for a longer contract. The costs may balance out.

You COULD just buy a boat yourself and wing it. I'd be, um, birdwatching, I think, IIWY. RIBnet would not endorse this course of action....

[RobRainford]

Thanks, the safe water training centre has been helpful, been speaking to them regarding what i need and as you said i need the powerboat level 2 and need to go through a few other procedures to get the commerical endorsement. Hiring a boat with a skipper would be handy in short term but ill be needing to go out on a very much as and when basis so constant booking would mean that it would be more fiscally viable to purchase and train.

the birdwatching method not possible unfourtunately! Way too much at stake to cut corners.

[Chris Caton]

Originally Posted by RobRainford

Thanks, the safe water training centre has been helpful, been speaking to them regarding what i need and as you said i need the powerboat level 2 and need to go through a few other procedures to get the commerical endorsement. Hiring a boat with a skipper would be handy in short term but ill be needing to go out on a very much as and when basis so constant booking would mean that it would be more fiscally viable to purchase and train.

the birdwatching method not possible unfourtunately! Way too much at stake to cut corners.

Safe Water have been going a long time and do lots of commercial work, glad they were able to advise

[floatyourboat]

Hi Rob

If you are working in category A or B waters you can work on a PB2 but do not require a commercial endorsement. Google boatmasteronestopshop this takes you to the MCA's page on it and may answer your questions.

Good luck
Rachel

[ShinyShoe]

Is the Ship Canal classed as sea?

Why a rib? Ribs are fantastic bits of kit but they have 1 disadvantage - squidgy tubes that like to get holes in them if you hit a sharp object. Not sure exactly what you are doing and have to fess up to never having been in the Manchester Ship Canal but it sounds like industrial canal which would have lots of cr@p in it and and lots of old wooden jetties with sharp bolts etc..

Ribs are great for speed and manoeuvres at speed. Is there a speed limit? If you are at displacement speeds you might as well have a row boat with an old seagul on the back!

I think I'd be tempted to look at either a dory style workboat or one of those platsic "tubed" RIB copies like a Pioneer or FunYak etc. They seem much more robust and unless you are planning on people getting on and off into the water, coming alongside lots of fragile boats or using the tubes as seats then I'm not sure they have much disadvantage, but become much harder to puncture on a bit of old shopping trolley etc...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

Is the Ship Canal classed as sea?

no it is Cat B waters. As such I don't *think* the boat needs to be MCA coded. HOWEVER the Canal Company may have some very specific requirements (a quick look suggest they don't like pleasure boats - but if you want to take a pleasure boat there then there are specific requirements in terms of anchors, ropes etc - so I can imagine they may place similar, or even tougher, expectations on small commercial vessels.

Rachel's link is here:
Boatmasters' Licences

You'll note that in addition to the certificate you need 12 months relevant experience - that might be challenging for a noobie!

Whether anyone will hand over a hire rib to you with that level of qualification and experience for this type of work might be a different question.

i can hire a RIB for this task which is quicker, cheaper and usable on my own if possible.

A properly constructed risk assessment might find it difficult to rationalise an inexperienced skipper working on a small boat performing any task simultaneously to helming the boat with major shipping around. Would you survey a motorway by driving along the hard shoulder whilst looking at the verge?

Shiny has a point about the choice of craft. I'm not sure what the survey work involves, but if you need to get "on and off" then that is going to need careful thought. If there are speed limits you will not really want a deep V hull (or will waste a lot of fuel pushing water around). I'm not a fan of prop guards - but you will presumably be working close to the bank out the way of the big ships and at risk of damaging the prop on submerged objects; shorter shaft engine or even a jet might be worth thinking about.

I don't want to suggest that driving a boat is rocket science, but using one safely, and efficiently in the course of your employment isn't quite as trivial as perhaps it first appears.

[floatyourboat]

MSN 1827 Categorisation of Waters will tell you whether the bit of water you're thinking of working on is A,B,C or D.

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by floatyourboat

Hi Rob

If you are working in category A or B waters you can work on a PB2 but do not require a commercial endorsement. Google boatmasteronestopshop this takes you to the MCA's page on it and may answer your questions.

Good luck
Rachel

Sorry Rachel. The key word here is "working". This is a bit of a weird one, because commercial work isn't defined. Leisure use is defined, and commercial work is simply anything that isn't leisure. In this case, it is clearly work and therefore needs a commercial endorsement.

I suspect you may be confusing the requirements for the boat with the requirements for the skipper. The boat will not need to be commercially coded to work in Categorised waters, but I'm afraid the skipper will need to be

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Sorry Rachel. The key word here is "working". This is a bit of a weird one, because commercial work isn't defined. Leisure use is defined, and commercial work is simply anything that isn't leisure. In this case, it is clearly work and therefore needs a commercial endorsement.

I suspect you may be confusing the requirements for the boat with the requirements for the skipper. The boat will not need to be commercially coded to work in Categorised waters, but I'm afraid the skipper will need to be

Ian - not according to the link Rachel referred to (Boatmasters' Licences) - Section 4, second last line of table says:

RYA/MCA Powerboat Level 2 without commercial endorsement and 12 month relevant experience ............... A and B only [my emphasis]

Don't know if that is right - but its what it says!

[Trell]

The MSCC will / do inspect your boat / Rib and do have specific requirements, not quiet as strict as coding, but that is a good guideline.