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Old 13 July 2010, 13:16   #11
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Originally Posted by John Kennett View Post
I assume that's different from the regular commercial endorsement?
You need to get the 4 STCW95 certs, Then get the RYA to endorse them on your cert of comp. Costs about 30, even for a member.
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Old 13 July 2010, 13:33   #12
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Originally Posted by Jonny2488 View Post
I struggle to believe that you've come across an establishment that prefer you to hold Day Skipper over Yachtmaster??? All this shows is their blatant lack of knowledge of the details of the RYA scheme. I wouldn't go anywhere near a company that would employ someone with only Day Skipper to conduct charters or any kind of commercial work.

There is no particular "type" of certificate e.g. leisure or commercial. Candidates sit the exam and then have the option to commercially endorse it by having a medical done and all the relevant paperwork completed.
The establishment was the Danish MCA!

They, sometimes like the UK MCA who are somewhat scathing about MCA Master 200GRT v RYA Master 200GRT (even if James Stevens says they are the same), were not happy with YM comm end, prefering D/Skipper.

We are talking about organisations, who consider 'commercial' mariners (fishermen, ship drivers, etc) are different to 'Yacht' masters. Skipper to them is more professional.

Its not the company hiring, but the authorities in the Country where you are working, who have to be satisfied. The phrase/term 'yachtmaster', even when commercially endorsed, means little, even if you are on a British flagged vessel when in their waters.

In Norway 2 years ago, I was questioned in Port by their CG, who even when they were shown the relevant UK MCA requirements (RYA commercially endorsed + Boatmaster tickets etc), made their own decision on manning qualifications ( this on a UK vessel) & were a hairsbreadth away from non acceptance.

Even we know that having a 'commercial endorsement' on an RYA certificate is just rubber stamping & alone is not necessarily an indication of experience or capability.
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Old 13 July 2010, 15:15   #13
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Originally Posted by alant1 View Post

Even we know that having a 'commercial endorsement' on an RYA certificate is just rubber stamping & alone is not necessarily an indication of experience or capability.
I don't agree, in the case of the yachtmaster offshore it proves
  • 2500 miles logged minimum
  • 5 passage of 60NM or more
  • 2 of those as skipper
  • passed a rigourous exam
  • has been trained in First Aid and vhf use
  • has been trained in survival techniques
  • is medically fit to go to sea

I would suggest this indicates a very particular level of experience and capability
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Old 14 July 2010, 05:13   #14
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I don't agree, in the case of the yachtmaster offshore it proves
  • 2500 miles logged minimum
  • 5 passage of 60NM or more
  • 2 of those as skipper
  • passed a rigourous exam
  • has been trained in First Aid and vhf use
  • has been trained in survival techniques
  • is medically fit to go to sea

I would suggest this indicates a very particular level of experience and capability
And the commercial endorsement is not rubber stamping?


"indicates a very particular level of experience and capability"

Or can be seen as -

[*]2500 miles logged minimum[*]5 passage of 60NM or more[*]2 of those as skipper
The above, can all be self-certified
[*]is medically fit to go to sea
basic ML5 done by own GP
[*]has been trained in First Aid and vhf use[*]has been trained in survival techniques
Has been on these courses & got a completion certificate.

Maybe not, I suspect, those coming through your training establishment, but many are not quite as strict.

The MCA, perhaps for reasons above, are scathing about RYA qualifications & trying to push the 'commercial skipper' toward the Certificate of Competancy (STCW95) - MSF 4343/REV 0607.

The MCA seem not to accept that the RYA endorsement "Master of Yachts of up to 200 gt.------Valid for commercial use on vessels subject to the codes of practice issued by the MCA", even when endorsed "The certificate holder complies with STCW 95 regulations, is at the standard of their "Certificate of Competancy (STCW95) - Masters, Chief Mates and Deck officers on Commercially and Privately Operated yachts and Sail Training Vessels - Master (less than 200gt)".

Foreign authorities, are even more puzzled by them.
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Old 14 July 2010, 05:43   #15
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Originally Posted by alant1 View Post
The establishment was the Danish MCA!

They, sometimes like the UK MCA who are somewhat scathing about MCA Master 200GRT v RYA Master 200GRT (even if James Stevens says they are the same), were not happy with YM comm end, prefering D/Skipper.

We are talking about organisations, who consider 'commercial' mariners (fishermen, ship drivers, etc) are different to 'Yacht' masters. Skipper to them is more professional.

Its not the company hiring, but the authorities in the Country where you are working, who have to be satisfied. The phrase/term 'yachtmaster', even when commercially endorsed, means little, even if you are on a British flagged vessel when in their waters.

In Norway 2 years ago, I was questioned in Port by their CG, who even when they were shown the relevant UK MCA requirements (RYA commercially endorsed + Boatmaster tickets etc), made their own decision on manning qualifications ( this on a UK vessel) & were a hairsbreadth away from non acceptance.

Even we know that having a 'commercial endorsement' on an RYA certificate is just rubber stamping & alone is not necessarily an indication of experience or capability.
It really wouldn't take much for the Danish MCA to look at the RYA Scheme and see that a Yachtmaster is far more experienced and qualified than a Day Skipper any day of the week! Are they really that bone idle to take what the certificate title says as gospel??? Evidently so. I can't believe for one second that they could look at the capabilities of your average Day Skipper compared to the Yachtmaster and choose to employ a lesser qualified person.
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Old 14 July 2010, 11:18   #16
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Originally Posted by Jonny2488 View Post
It really wouldn't take much for the Danish MCA to look at the RYA Scheme and see that a Yachtmaster is far more experienced and qualified than a Day Skipper any day of the week! Are they really that bone idle to take what the certificate title says as gospel??? Evidently so. I can't believe for one second that they could look at the capabilities of your average Day Skipper compared to the Yachtmaster and choose to employ a lesser qualified person.
Feel free to liaise with them over it!

They are not bone idle, but dealing with their rules, based upon their local regs. Its up to any outsider to convince them.

Even our own UK MCA, are not keen on RYA certified, so why should denmark be any different!
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