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Old 05 January 2013, 08:30   #51
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It is with immediate effect!
is that right? Others on here say 2014 after the discussions/meetings this year. I didnt see any date specified when I looked thru the paperwork when it first arrived which is either my eyesight or a major flaw in the information.
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Old 05 January 2013, 09:16   #52
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is that right? Others on here say 2014 after the discussions/meetings this year. I didnt see any date specified when I looked thru the paperwork when it first arrived which is either my eyesight or a major flaw in the information.
I asked the question last week when I was down at HQ and was told that it was from now . There will be a workshop at the PB conference on 3rd Feb. I won't be there as I am at YM do the week before.
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Old 05 January 2013, 11:47   #53
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ok....a badly drafted bit of info from the RYA if we are having to ask when it comes in. I had sort of assumed it was this year after reading the info over Christmas (hicc!) but then I've had a couple of PMs/e mails after I asked the question on here telling me it was 2014, but if you have asked HQ then so be it......confusion apparently reigns.
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Old 05 January 2013, 12:23   #54
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ok....a badly drafted bit of info from the RYA if we are having to ask when it comes in. .
Couldn't agree more
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Old 05 January 2013, 20:53   #55
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ok....a badly drafted bit of info from the RYA if we are having to ask when it comes in. I had sort of assumed it was this year after reading the info over Christmas (hicc!) but then I've had a couple of PMs/e mails after I asked the question on here telling me it was 2014, but if you have asked HQ then so be it......confusion apparently reigns.
I agree and not sure where it really leaves those that run advanced courses but don't have coded boats.

From my perspective, it does not really matter when it takes effect: if I want to run advanced courses then I need to code my boat/s accordingly. So I am doing it my time, not being given a deadline and then "panicking" because it has to be done by .........

If we really consider it, every boat needs to comply as it is for "hire or reward". I have to comply on the motor cruising side of things, so what is the difference under the powerboat scheme? There is exemption for PB 2 and Intermediate in Cat 6 areas, but operating at night is a different scenario .
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Old 06 January 2013, 04:00   #56
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Just maybe we should all be thinking a little deeper about this matter especially iof you are RYA Aoved TC's delivering power boat training.

Throughout all RYA Courses whether theory, practical sail/power cruising or PB there is a critical thread and that is safety. Bearing this in mind and the requirements for APB can anyone tell me why the boats on which people are receiving training shouldn't be coded? all sail/power cruising TC's have to code all the craft they use so what's the difference with APB TC's?

May I again remind everyone that the RYA have to consider the views of the MCA who in turn have to consider the recommendations of the MAIB in all aspects of education, training and issues relating to CoC's. If they don't then the RYA will loose their position as the 'small craft' Body. this happened in USA and now we have IYT Worldwide delivering courses with the same syllabii as all the RYA Courses.
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Old 06 January 2013, 04:21   #57
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I agree and not sure where it really leaves those that run advanced courses but don't have coded boats.

From my perspective, it does not really matter when it takes effect: if I want to run advanced courses then I need to code my boat/s accordingly. So I am doing it my time, not being given a deadline and then "panicking" because it has to be done by .........

If we really consider it, every boat needs to comply as it is for "hire or reward". I have to comply on the motor cruising side of things, so what is the difference under the powerboat scheme? There is exemption for PB 2 and

Intermediate in Cat 6 areas, but operating at night is a different scenario .
Does any one know when it comes in to effect as some say now, some say end of the year some 2014, I would have thought that the RYA Inspectors will need to updated before this comes in .
I am trying to book on the inspectors update for March but anyone going to Wyboston will be updated first.Is anyone going from here ? can I blag a lift .

A very interesting thread from Schools and Surveyors points of view especially on the MCA and Local Authority requirements.

I am all for it, as stated by someone else my Mobo has to be coded for the Helmsman course up to Yachtmaster work up so why not Advanced.
Reason behind PB2 not being included is probably all the sailing clubs that offer PB2 and Safety boat the cost would be prohibitive to spec the boats.
Happy New Year by the way to you all.
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Old 06 January 2013, 11:08   #58
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I am all for it, as stated by someone else my Mobo has to be coded for the Helmsman course up to Yachtmaster work up so why not Advanced.
Reason behind PB2 not being included is probably all the sailing clubs that offer PB2 and Safety boat the cost would be prohibitive to spec the boats.
Happy New Year by the way to you all.
Tim
I am completely the opposite, I don't believe it is necessary. RYA centres and their craft are inspected annually,they effectively operate from a NDP and they push a much smaller weather window than much of the offshore industry. I think it is fantastic that the RYA have kept the burden of unnecessary admim, cost and regulation away from us for so long, I am saddened that part of the exemption has now been removed. How long before a bit more is eroded and we end up having to carry a life raft on a windsurf board used for training.

On a personal note my RIBs are coded anyway so from a business point of view the new system is good for me, however I do not value the coding process, I think it is poorly written, poorly managed poorly enforced and much of the code is irrelevant to a lot of boats. The RYA have managed to keep it away from RIB school for a long time and for good reason.

In the 16 years I have been teaching advanced power courses (and the year before I ran them but they were in place), I don't believe that having coded boats would have made the courses better. In fact the course would probabally never have got of the ground.

On another note the move to having 4 forward facing seats aft of the console is I believe very sensible.

Tim and David, you both give motor boats as an example/comparison. The motor cruising scheme is a very different animal
  • It in the Offshore Cruising Scheme
  • Boats operate from un inspected sites
  • Students can live aboard
  • Boats do not necassarily return to base each day

I am well aware that a lot of operators like to see rules tightened up but the Hayling Trailers thread is a classic example of why stricter regs are not necessarily required. Personally I would like to see the RYA devote more time to fighting the more ridiculous parts of the code for all operators.

Most supporters of this new regulation have complained openly about the coded many times.
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Old 06 January 2013, 13:15   #59
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I don't believe that having coded boats would have made the courses better.
Better or safer? Not disagreeing with you but I can see the logic, especially as the advanced course if often used as an entry into commercial operations where you would need to be familiar with the extra kit found on a coded boat.
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Old 06 January 2013, 13:39   #60
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Better or safer? Not disagreeing with you but I can see the logic, especially as the advanced course if often used as an entry into commercial operations where you would need to be familiar with the extra kit found on a coded boat.
Having the necessary kit on board is one thing. The RYA have always provided a list of required equipment and it is one of the things that is checked at the annual inspection. If you set up a yachting centre overseas with a non UK flagged yacht you still comply with the RYA training vessel checklist BUT you are not MCA coded (you may have to license under local regs, depending on which country/flag state).

We could debate all day how valuable some of the coding rules actualy are. There has been great discussion on this forum about having to carry exposure/survival suits if waters are below 10 degs (but not actually having to wear them). Not dissimilar to the code saying a powerboat should carry life jackets but the RYA saying something much more sensible- (i.e. on powerboat courses you will wear life jackets).

For our last code inspection we had to buy a hydrocarbon detector, the surveyor actually told me, "once you have fitted it, switch it of as it will just beep all of the time. They are ****** useless but I have to see one to give yo your certificate."

My earlier point however was that I have not heard of any accidents that have occurred on advanced courses that would have been avoided if the boat had been coded, nor have I heard of near misses in the same situation.

My other point was coding itself is rubbish. The MCA have painted all boats with one colour when we all know that all boats are different, they have left very little room for qualified skippers and surveyors to follow common sense, what they have actually done is legislate on the basis of every accident that has ever occurred.
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