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Old 31 October 2011, 14:47   #11
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Originally Posted by steadyeddie View Post
you failed to take into account board and lodgings which if you were paying yourself would be 30 a day making the 150 now 120 a day which in my calculations is LESS, than the minimum wage,so take 250 days working @less 30 a day board and lodge is 7500 less than the 35000 you mention
Everyone has to pay for basic living expenses such as board and lodgings. If you choose to work away from your home area then your living expenses go up. Chewy may be lucky but as an employer we don't pay staff from further away any more than locals to do the same job. Why would we?

Either way your calculations are still miles out.

120 a day on a 12 hour day is 10/hr, still way more than minimum wage (6.08). On a 8 hr day its 15/hour and way over twice the minimum wage.
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Old 31 October 2011, 14:56   #12
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Originally Posted by chewy

I work as a contractor and if someone expects me to work away from home then I would expect the rate to reflect me having to travel and sort digs out. Alternatively I would expect to be given an allowance per day to be spent on accommodation, if I decide to find cheap digs and spend the rest on drink thats my choice.
Fair enough, I don't know your sector but if the same job can be done locally without the need to pay the person for expenses then I'm sure the employer would choose that option, based on standards being the same etc.

I agree with Doug, if you want the work you will do whatever you need to in order to get it. If that means travel, paying your own way etc then that's what you got to do.

If somebody wants you on the other hand then that's a different story and they will pay what have to in order to secure your services. Supply = Demand.

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Old 31 October 2011, 15:01   #13
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If somebody wants you on the other hand then that's a different story and they will pay what have to in order to secure your services. Supply = Demand.
Nail on the head there mate.
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Old 31 October 2011, 15:12   #14
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in this day and age a lot ofcompanies are working time for time , thus 120 a day and no leave pay equates to 60 a day,which is less than the minimum wage, if you look at earlier posts inthe forum a company is looking for operatives at 6.08 an hour to which they were laughed at. youll be familiar with the working time directive for seafarers etc doug ,as for my maths they were ok when i passed my mca 3000 t oow !! , with 35yr seagoing exp ihave seen most things when it comes to dayrates etc
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Old 31 October 2011, 16:09   #15
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I think some people may have missed the point about fair wages and pay. Im currently finishing my YM soon and dont even want to start to work out how much its cost me and just this far. Should people with specialist qualifications not be entitled to a little more than the minimum wage? I know from previous experience in the diving industry that once 1 person works for nothing or very little it devalues the entire industry and employers think they can get away with not paying their staff and fair rate for the qualifications they have had to work for and spent alot of money. How much does someone on minimum wage have to pay for their training to work in a factory or in an office or where ever? I've spoke to a few people personally about this and have set a limit on what the minimum is that I will work for. It may take me a little longer to find work but in the long run it will benifit me more and anyone else looking to get into the industry by not selling myself cheap. I think this is one of the main reasons why jobs are being advertised for people with adv power rather than yacht masters. I have been told by a very good source this is because there aren't that many yacht master unemployed at the moment with the amount of work out there at the moment and the job still needs to be done so employers are having to get people with a lesser ticket in to do the job.
Just my opinion and will welcome any thoughts on such
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Old 31 October 2011, 16:42   #16
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Originally Posted by s.tree
I think some people may have missed the point about fair wages and pay. Im currently finishing my YM soon and dont even want to start to work out how much its cost me and just this far. Should people with specialist qualifications not be entitled to a little more than the minimum wage? I know from previous experience in the diving industry that once 1 person works for nothing or very little it devalues the entire industry and employers think they can get away with not paying their staff and fair rate for the qualifications they have had to work for and spent alot of money. How much does someone on minimum wage have to pay for their training to work in a factory or in an office or where ever? I've spoke to a few people personally about this and have set a limit on what the minimum is that I will work for. It may take me a little longer to find work but in the long run it will benifit me more and anyone else looking to get into the industry by not selling myself cheap. I think this is one of the main reasons why jobs are being advertised for people with adv power rather than yacht masters. I have been told by a very good source this is because there aren't that many yacht master unemployed at the moment with the amount of work out there at the moment and the job still needs to be done so employers are having to get people with a lesser ticket in to do the job.
Just my opinion and will welcome any thoughts on such
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you should be asking for more or less than the quoted figures, it's not my place to say. All I'm saying is that you should be getting a wage for what you do, not what you have to do to get there. That's my point.

In my job I travel a lot and stay at a lot of hotels overnight to buy the boats, I don't fancy my chances of getting the seller to cover those costs, I factor it into my margin. Different case but similar point. Your choosing to go work outside of your area so it's down to you to cover the cost to get there. By all means factor that into your required salary of that I have no problem. If whats offered is not enough Don't take the job

Your investing in your future and yes you should be getting a "specialist" wage for the enhanced job you are skilled for.

It's not even against you. I have the same feeling for all working environments. Like the members of parliament for example where I don't think they should be able to claim any allowance for having to buy/rent a home local to parliament etc. they choose to do the work so bloody well pay for yourself to live. That's what I feel anyway. If you don't want to do that don't do the job!!

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Old 31 October 2011, 17:00   #17
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Originally Posted by steadyeddie View Post
in this day and age a lot ofcompanies are working time for time , thus 120 a day and no leave pay equates to 60 a day,which is less than the minimum wage, if you look at earlier posts inthe forum a company is looking for operatives at 6.08 an hour to which they were laughed at. youll be familiar with the working time directive for seafarers etc doug ,as for my maths they were ok when i passed my mca 3000 t oow !! , with 35yr seagoing exp ihave seen most things when it comes to dayrates etc
Moving of goal posts again! Now you want to factor in a paid week off for every week you work? 8hr day at 60 a day is still above NMW by the way.

I am reasonably familiar with the WTD for seafarers but now your argument makes less sense. For the Act to apply the seafarer should be working on a seagoing ship, this means it is unlikely he is going ashore every night. If he is working on a seagoing ship then why would he be paying 30 a night board and lodgings? Did they cover this on OOW training!

Anyway as s.tree sais its not about getting min wage but a fair day's pay, or a fair package.
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Old 31 October 2011, 17:23   #18
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the reason i mentioned the seafarers act is because there is certain "operators " are expecting men to work 12 hours and then live onboard whilst the vessel works nightshift!!, received a phone call the other day to see if i was interested in this set up and told him he was setting the industry back 20 year !!!, regarding the "paid" week off this is pretty standard procedure in the real world , as for the wtd if you work 12 hr shifts it still applies you are entitled to rest periods , think we are on diff wavelengths so will leave it at that
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Old 01 November 2011, 03:18   #19
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How much do you pay Doug
I know you charge out your Trainer/ Moderators @ 185 .
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Old 01 November 2011, 03:38   #20
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So if a vessel operates 24/7 how would you suggest that you get around the need to live on board?

I won't go into my day rates but my current 'employer' covers my food/travel/laundry/etc in addition to my day rate but I live aboard and as skipper am obviously available 24/7.

I am freelance so if 'you' aren't paying my expenses then I m not going to work for you as I can't move every time I change employers - it just isn't possible financially or practically.

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