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Old 17 March 2004, 02:59   #21
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stricter qualifications

it has to be the RYA advanced ticket for a commercial operator
that at least proves some level of competency, as for experience anyone applying for work, for me i would like to see some proof
of experience, it is such a hard game to work in and one accident will finish your business, i do get brassed off during events
such as Cowes week when a load of ribs turn up for chartering undercuttuing the commercial operators, they may not be qualified
or insured for chartering last year the MCA rib was stopping loads of ribs, and asking for paperwork and asking the passengers if they were a charter or not i know of three boats ,who scurried back to mainland .hopefully they will be around again this year
Tim
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Old 17 March 2004, 04:15   #22
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Tim, I think they will. they were making there presence felt last August in Weymouth with there new boats.

http://www.vosperthornycroft.co.uk/halmatic/news.asp?s=

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Old 17 March 2004, 05:05   #23
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Life Rafts...

I seem to have given completely the wrong impression!! I am NOT trying to justify any relaxation of the MCA guidelines, and if I code my boat, will have no problem in putting a liferaft on it!! I completely agree, if you are going to do it, do it properly.

My only point is that the application of the rules hasn't been / still isn't consistant. For example, why should RYA schools be exempt? It's a boat, operated on a commercial basis - the last one I was on, whilst within 3 miles of land at all times, didn't carry any sort of radio (or any other kit). There was also no safety boat that could be described as 'keeping an eye out'. Why should four people on an RYA course be under different rules to a charter boat with 4 people on board?

On our course, had something happened to the school RIB, we could have been in trouble. If it were my RIB, I might not have a liferaft, but I'd have had VHF, and at least I could call someone about it.

Just to repeat - NO problem with doing things properly. I'd just like to see some consistancy. It might also get rid of all these 'grey areas' that cause so many of these threads!! For example, according to the MCA (and posts on this thread), you CAN commercially endorse PB2. Also, according to this thread, you need Advanced PB to be endorsed!!

Confused, of Kirkham...

Dylan...
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Old 17 March 2004, 06:26   #24
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endosements

why were you training with a school with no safety kit on board
pb2 commercial endorsement area 6 3mile from NDP and 3 mile offshore Advanced is for area 3 with two years experience up tp twenty miles from a safe haven so yes you can get a commercial endorsement on a pb2 look at paul glatzels reply and you will see it explained also have a look on his website their is a good article re coding arib.
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Old 17 March 2004, 07:34   #25
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Still coding...

Quote:
why were you training with a school with no safety kit on board
Erm... 'cos I assumed that an RYA approved school would be following the relevant regulations?

The rules do seem to be getting clearer (with much help from places like RIBnet and Paul Glatzels website, and recently the MCA after I managed to find the draft guidelines...) but the application still isn't consistant.

I still don't understand why an RYA school boat - carrying paying punters - should be exempt, whereas a non-passenger carrying RIB, working commercially, either single handed or with just crew, isn't!!

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Old 17 March 2004, 07:40   #26
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Re: Still coding...

Quote:
Originally posted by DGR
I still don't understand why an RYA school boat - carrying paying punters - should be exempt, whereas a non-passenger carrying RIB, working commercially, either single handed or with just crew, isn't!!
Dylan, that's a good question to put to the RYA.
I am amazed there was no VHF onboard or a first aid kit as this should also have been on the rib and all students should be supplied with 150N Auto Life jackets. Not sure what else is required but inshore flare pack I'd have thought.
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Old 17 March 2004, 08:15   #27
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RYA EXEMPTION

Good question
ive looked through the RYA Principals pack and found this
"All craft used in teaching will in all respects be well found, regularly inspected and maintained, suitable for instruction,equiped to the standards set out in the relevant RYA booklets and that no craft to which a Department of Transport Code of Practice applies will be used unless such craft have been officially inspected and certified as being in conformity with the code."
paying guest for a charter is different than paying for tuition
as a RYA TRAINING CENTRE you are inspected to a high standard
involving boats SAFETY EQUIPMENT safety policies facilities and so on, the RYA is the governing body for recreational users and is often in conflict with the MCA re lightdues red deisel the MCA is the goverments appointed agency to ensure codes of practice for commercial operators fare paying not instruction the RYA is recognised by the MCA as the provider of tuition in leisure use in this country the MCA also recognize other governing bodies within this sport BSAC RLSS BCU
hope this helps
tim
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Old 17 March 2004, 08:23   #28
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Still Coding......

OK - so the MCA regulate conditions for fare paying passengers, and as the RYA are instructing, and therefore not carrying 'passengers' they are exempt?

If that's true, if a commercial RIB isn't being used for fare paying passengers, then the coding shouldn't be relevant. But it is!!

I guess that just underlines my point about inconsistant application. Either it should be applied, or it shouldn't.

Anyway, by the time I buy all the coding kit, there won't be room for any passengers, so I won't need all the coding kit.....oh dear...............

Dylan...
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Old 17 March 2004, 15:39   #29
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Just to add fuel to the fire!!!

If you are in the Solent you are not at sea. Fact according to the MCA.

You can now use the inland waterways coding, cat water c +d and the requirement for the driver is among other things:
RYA Powerboat level 2 with 12 months relevent experiance.

The RYA ribs do not have to be coded. Fact, but do need to be inspected by RYA coach/trainers to be up to the required standard for use on the RYA courses. I think there are a number of trainers on this site that would welcome the opertunity to inspect the said RYA establishment that you say you did your course at!!!!
Regards
Stuart
ps Been through the whole Coding thing myself and will be at Cowes week etc if you need me
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Old 17 March 2004, 16:05   #30
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Do everybody who goes for training and report the establishment to John Menzies at the RYA....he will do something about it. Out of interest did the school drive home the imprtance of radio and safety as they are supposed to as part of the syllabus?

We rent ribs to charter companies and training centres and the RYA inspection is, at least, thorough and most certainly does require you to have all relevant safety equipment on board. A liferaft is not a requirement for the RYA but I suspect it will be when the MCA regulations come in to force.

I wouldn't employ a PB2 to drive on one of our charters unless I'd been out with him/her for a good few hours and realised that they had put the hours in and didn't know how to panic.

I am interested if a commercial rib isn't carrying passengers the presumaby it's carrying goods and that then makes it a workboat.
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