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Old 26 July 2004, 13:19   #1
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Commercial courses

Hi everyone would like some feed back on this one please,
any interest in commercial rib courses just kicking some ideas around and am wondering if there would be a call for it , rules are changing Jan 2005 for commercial endorsements ie an exam is now required undertaken by a Yachtmaster examiner or Trainer so all comments welcome
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Old 26 July 2004, 14:09   #2
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Hello Tim,

I suppose it depends on what is meant by 'commercial'. Do you mean that there will now be an exam for those with YM or Coastal tickets who want to operate commercially? Currently, you just need to get the 1st aid and Medical for the RYA/MCA endorsement, don't you? I know that this is under review, but get v. lost when looking at MCA regs

It would be fantastic if you could specify a bespoke course for commercial work, but by definition the breadth of operations that a commercial user may be involved in could make this difficult. EG. Grab sampling, trawling/netting, enforcement patrols, SAR, fast tender, safety boat, fish farms etc, etc.

As a general comment, I really feel that anyone who is contemplating a course should brief the trainer as thoroughly as possible as to their workload and also do it in waters similar to their proposed operating area. I have been on several courses in the Solent (which were nice), but generally operate in estuaries, frequently at night, where local knowledge is a premium.

Hope that this helps,

t
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Old 26 July 2004, 15:19   #3
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Thanks for the reply Tideway its for commercial rib operation mainly passenger
re the commercial endorsement you need your advanced powerboat ticket first aid vhf and sea survival and pass a medical after Jan 2005 you will be examined by a yachtmaster examiner or powerboat trainer to gain commercial recognition by the MCA you will still need all the above . not sure about doing the advanced course in estuaries in the solent where do you mean , as for sar RNLI RLSS do these courses as for fishing covered by SEAFISH its just an idea and am not expecting any take up just sounding people out
thanks
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Old 26 July 2004, 16:10   #4
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Will existing advanced ticket commercial endorsements be honoured or will this proposed exam have to be taken regardless?
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Old 26 July 2004, 16:15   #5
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Hi tim,

Ahh understand better now. I actually meant that I have done several RYA courses in waters nowhere near where we operate ie. courses in the solent and we are bobbing around in the east coast estuaries. Sorry, this wasn't clear in first post.

A bespoke commercial course would be good though, especially for refresher training. For example, nearly everything we do is pilotage and we rely heavily on our local knowledge. However, new vessels, and more often than not new gizmos, are probably not fully exploited due to lack of familiarity with the technology etc. Refresher training on the actual workboat in the local area would definitely benefit our crews, who are mainly scientists using boats as a tool rather than anything else

Didn't know about the changes in Jan 05 though, so a useful thread.

cheers,

t
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Old 26 July 2004, 17:01   #6
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Tim, good idea, but not sure if there is a big enough demand. Perhaps you might be able to run a a few in amongst your other courses.

However have to say I was disappointed with the RYA "Advanced Course". When someone showed me RYA slides of how rope is made on an advanced course I nearly made my excuses and left. But the best was still to come, half the course could even park a boat and had done little boat handling since doing the basics.

Good idea, worth persuing, shout if you want some ginepigs to practise on.

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Old 27 July 2004, 03:13   #7
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Pete7

Advanced Course: You are right to be disappointed re your Advanced Course as what you say you covered really is below what you should be addressing at that level. This reinforces the point that before investing in a Course really do take the time to check out the school concerned and more particularly the experience of the Advanced Instructors that will run it as logically they make or break the value of the course. (PS: Don't mean to sound smart after the event - even though it reads that way!)

The point about less than capable helms attending the course is a valid one but is one that is easily prevented. In boat handling terms any (potential) course attendee should be able to be dropped in any boat (power up to c33ft) and either bring it alongside perfectly or at the least extremely well and safely. In respect of navigation type knowledge if you cannot plot a course to steer or tell me about ‘Speed over Ground’ then that tends to suggest you are not at the right level. Applying these two ‘tests’ to those that want to attend tends to ensure no-one comes along materially below standard. The way I look at it is that if we sign off someone with their Advanced Certificate we are saying they can take out a commercial craft & passengers. You can be sure that in the event of an accident the MCA will be all over the Skipper and the RYA all over the school that passed them. By accepting individuals below standard onto the advanced course we are actually doing them a disservice as they will tend to be up against it the whole way through and far more likely to have to receive an ‘action plan’.

One of the reasons for people attending Advanced below the ‘level’ was the very large step between Level 2 & Advanced. The advent of the intermediate course creates a perfect stepping stone to the Advanced course and more particularly from Level 2. Don’t let any of the above suggest that people should not look at advanced just chat through with a school the options and formulate a plan with them.

Seb

Contrary to my initial understanding, anyone with an Advanced Certificate issued up to 31st Dec can get that commercially endorsed at any time after. Anyone who has not got it by then will need to take the ‘exam’ under a Powerboat Trainer. I think these ‘exams’ may be booked centrally via the RYA as per Yachtnaster but I’m not 100% sure.

Paul
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Old 27 July 2004, 04:21   #8
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Thanks for that info Paul but do you mean December 31st gone or December 31st this year?

Cheers
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Old 27 July 2004, 04:42   #9
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Seb. Paul means 31st December 2004. If you have an advanced certificate prior to this date then this can still be endorsed without taking the exam.
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Old 27 July 2004, 07:48   #10
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Don't the IMO do a course for commercial Rib Drivers?
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