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Old 27 January 2013, 08:57   #11
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OP - If I was you - I'd take the pics and keep schtum!

However, I think the question of does your boat need to be coded or not is another matter. If you are not strictly leisure, then you are, by default, commercial and as such, need to be coded to operate in non-catagorised waters. The coding can't be determined by you being the only operator - it will be based on the boat being used by any skipper to undertake commissioned work - commercial!
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Old 27 January 2013, 17:10   #12
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There is no grey area.

Opening para of 280 states

The Code has been developed for application to United Kingdom (UK) vessels of up to 24 metres Load Line length which are engaged at sea in activities on a commercial basis, which carry cargo and/or not more than 12 passengers, or provide a service in which neither cargo nor passengers are carried, or are UK pilot boats of whatever size.

If you hire yourself out as as a photographer with a boat then you are providing a service and would need to be coded. If however you happened to sell some photos that you had taken while you happened to be on a boat then the boat would not have had to be coded. If they commission you and your boat then your boat is providing a service which they are paying for.

I dont see much point in asking the Solent based yacht photographers, I suspect that several of them will not know what you are even talking about. In reality go and take some photos, get on with it, just don't charter the boat out with a photographer.
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Old 28 January 2013, 01:04   #13
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In My view you are operating commercially and it would be an idea to speak to your insurers to ensure that you are covered to do what you're doing.

Additionally, you could always bite the bullet and ask the MCA Marine Office, Spring Place, for guidance and advice. That way you would have a definative response and proof which may be required at a later date.

I'm sure you could wrap the whole thing up in such a way that if you didn't like the answer they wouldn't know it was your query!
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Old 28 January 2013, 02:50   #14
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If you are operating in the same area all the time just get a local authority licence
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Old 28 January 2013, 03:28   #15
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If you are operating in the same area all the time just get a local authority licence
Do local authority licenses cover ALL commercial operations or only paying passengers?
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Old 28 January 2013, 03:34   #16
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Not sure thinking about it, this is why I don't do anymore charter, they split hairs only to make it more difficult and more money, I'll go back to my original post and bugger them
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Old 28 January 2013, 03:49   #17
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But they are probably operating in categorised waters. My understanding is: No need for coding/licensing in Categorised waters unless carrying paying passengers (then need one or other). Operating outside categorised waters then needs coded if being used commercially.
I've never heard that one before. On that basis none of the Seastart boats operating in the Solent need to be coded, yet they are
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Old 28 January 2013, 06:27   #18
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I've never heard that one before. On that basis none of the Seastart boats operating in the Solent need to be coded, yet they are
s94 Public Health Acts Amendment Act 1907
Public Health Acts Amendment Act 1907

Power to license pleasure-boats. E+W

(1)The local authority may grant upon such terms and conditions as they may think fit licences for pleasure boats and pleasure vessels to be let for hire or to be used for carrying passengers for hire, and to the [persons in charge of or navigating] such boats and vessels, and may charge [for each type of licence such annual fee as appears to them to be appropriate].

---
If your boat is broken down and Seastart give you a lift from the mooring back to shore is that "carrying passengers for hire"?
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Old 28 January 2013, 06:32   #19
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There is no grey area.

Opening para of 280 states

The Code has been developed for application to United Kingdom (UK) vessels of up to 24 metres Load Line length which are engaged at sea in activities on a commercial basis, which carry cargo and/or not more than 12 passengers, or provide a service in which neither cargo nor passengers are carried, or are UK pilot boats of whatever size.

If you hire yourself out as as a photographer with a boat then you are providing a service and would need to be coded. If however you happened to sell some photos that you had taken while you happened to be on a boat then the boat would not have had to be coded. If they commission you and your boat then your boat is providing a service which they are paying for.

I dont see much point in asking the Solent based yacht photographers, I suspect that several of them will not know what you are even talking about. In reality go and take some photos, get on with it, just don't charter the boat out with a photographer.
I agree that Commissioned or Hired out is commercial basis, and that a few leisure shots you take and later sell is not... ...but do you not think that there is a grey area when the number of shots you take is high enough (assuming you are selling them) that you could be making profit? or how about if I set up a competitor site to boatpics.com or whatever its called in the solent and just appear to be selling pics for profit even if I sell very few or make less than my fuel etc costs...
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Old 28 January 2013, 08:08   #20
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I think you've got bogged down in a grey area Poly. The point is not whether you are commercial or not, it's are you leisure or not. If you're not strictly leisure (and 280 explains Leisure in some detail) then you are, by default, Commercial. There is no grey area. If you take your craft "to sea" to profit from your presence there (excludes commercial fishing) then you are Commercial. If you happened to be at sea (for Leisure) and you took a newsworthy photo and sold it later, nothing changes - you're still Leisure. If you put to sea as a photojournalist to do a day's freelance work, you're Commercial.

It's a question of Intent, and so the honesty of the operator is obviously a factor.

Personally, I'd keep it to myself and snap away, honestly!
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