Coding for occasional charter use

[GuyC]

https://www.iims.org.uk/iims-members...ng+Surveys&kw=

It might be worth speaking to one of these people.

[Iankristy]

Also Ian Winson here https://www.chartersassociation.co.uk

[Poly]

Tim is correct, if you stay within the categorised waters (you can go round Bute in summer, but not to Arran) you don’t need to be MCA coded but you would need to be licensed by the relevant local authority (eg if based at Inverkip you need to by licensed by Inverclyde Council - https://www.inverclyde.gov.uk/law-an...t-hire-licence) . Theoretically a council could elect not to require a license but I’d be surprised if any of those around the clyde are ignoring it following MAIB feedback on inconsistent licensing arrangements for a passenger ferry on loch Lomond which sank.

Tim M, can you confirm that my description is correct for how the NDP is interpreted in the Solent? It is the outerlimit of the categorised waters not the marina where you launch?

[craig_c]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

How many seats does your boat have and how many people do you want to code it for?
What boat is it? Do you know the freeboard height at transom?

8.4m Redbay Cabin rib

enclosed seating

upright forward facing seating for 4, with two small side facing benches.

Ideally I would code it for 6 as I have a 6 person liferaft. Myself and 5 passengers or 2 crew and 4 passengers.

[Iankristy]

That should be easily codeable for 6. If your going for cat 4 or cat 3(r) then you don’t need an epirb. You’ll only need ais if your harbour authority require it(forth ports don’t ). You’ll need the necessary auto fire protection for inboard but if coded before you probably have it and will just need serviced. Mgn 280 is the document you need to go through. Everything you need for coding is in there. It’s a big document but just work your way through. If you want it coded as a ‘workboat’ as well(safety boating, taking press,photographers, etc) then you’ll need to comply with the new work boat code as well. Few things you’ll need for coding I haven’t seen mentioned: thermal protection aids, paper chart for area of operation and all you need to plot course, hand held compass, anchor ball, basic tool kit, cat c med kit, fire extinguishers, LJ’s for number coded for plus 2 spare serviced and in date(service about £10) with lights if cat 3(r), 2 x safety harness, means of getting mobs back in boat(eg foldable ladder, the number of flares required for your coding, additional means of propulsion, emergency tiller, sos signal cards and some other stuff it’s too early to think off [emoji106]

[Iankristy]

https://assets.publishing.service.go...245/mgn280.pdf

[Iankristy]

https://assets.publishing.service.go...-06-09-sgs.pdf

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

I’m pretty certain the 3 miles from ndp is just that. You also have to return to that ndp and can’t drop passengers elsewhere. If you plan to do more than this advanced pb commercially endorsed should be your first port of call. The cost of this if your worried about insurance costs will put into perspective.

Ian, MGN280 that you provided includes the definition of NDP - if the DP is inside Categrorised Waters then it is the seaward boundary of the Cat Waters. I don’t see anything about not being able to drop passengers elsewhere. That may be an issue with LA licensing depending what conditions they impose; it could certainly be an issue if the “destination” is in a different LA’s jurisdiction.

For Craig’s boat it would make sense to go Cat 3 but it would mean he needed a major upgrade in qualifications. Cat 6 potentially allows him to cover 90% of the trips he was interested in with minimal extra qual burden.

[Iankristy]

Originally Posted by Poly

Ian, MGN280 that you provided includes the definition of NDP - if the DP is inside Categrorised Waters then it is the seaward boundary of the Cat Waters. I don’t see anything about not being able to drop passengers elsewhere. That may be an issue with LA licensing depending what conditions they impose; it could certainly be an issue if the “destination” is in a different LA’s jurisdiction.

For Craig’s boat it would make sense to go Cat 3 but it would mean he needed a major upgrade in qualifications. Cat 6 potentially allows him to cover 90% of the trips he was interested in with minimal extra qual burden.

Cheers poly I stand corrected. It’s a bit grey and woolly all that for my liking though. I do think however that pb2 commercially endorsed will quite soon be useless when mgn is updated to fall in line with the new workboat code. I would say rightfully so as it’s a world apart from advanced PB. It has little that would prepare you to take responsibility for passengers at sea.

[GuyC]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

a bit grey and woolly all that for my liking

That seems to be a characteristic of these (and most other marine) standards. They are often open to interpretation and two surveyors may have different takes on the application of the same rule.

Surveyors also have their own likes and dislikes and whilst something may appear to be black and white, a surveyor will use their own judgement in laying down the law.

I'm very much of the opinion of engage with the surveyor early - they are generally (but not always) very helpful.

[Iankristy]

Originally Posted by GuyC

That seems to be a characteristic of these (and most other marine) standards. They are often open to interpretation and two surveyors may have different takes on the application of the same rule.



Surveyors also have their own likes and dislikes and whilst something may appear to be black and white, a surveyor will use their own judgement in laying down the law.



I'm very much of the opinion of engage with the surveyor early - they are generally (but not always) very helpful.

Absolutely agree re surveyor. I would make the contact initially explain what I plan to do. If coding I would do as much as I thought needed done/ purchased, get the survey done and you’ll have a wee list of things he wants done/ purchased. Tick those off and your away.
Re the woolliness of regs that’s the same here on the east coast. I could probably technically not code my boats as pretty much stay in categorised waters. Aim for the highest standard though. Get it coded cat 4 or 3(r) and get your apb commercially endorsed. Op and boat will be squeaky clean then[emoji106]

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Iankristy

. I do think however that pb2 commercially endorsed will quite soon be useless when mgn is updated to fall in line with the new workboat code. I would say rightfully so as it’s a world apart from advanced PB. It has little that would prepare you to take responsibility for passengers at sea.

I’d agree with you in principal, although there are little ferries operating in places that never go out of site of their base, do 1/2 mile or less between points and probably wouldn’t keep the average APB skipper entertained for long. Some of those skippers will only have a PB2 but will be more expert at handling that boat in those waters than a newly qualified APB. I’ve seen some supposedly experienced APB helms who I wouldn’t want taking out a bunch of passengers.

[Iankristy]

Originally Posted by Poly

I’d agree with you in principal, although there are little ferries operating in places that never go out of site of their base, do 1/2 mile or less between points and probably wouldn’t keep the average APB skipper entertained for long. Some of those skippers will only have a PB2 but will be more expert at handling that boat in those waters than a newly qualified APB. I’ve seen some supposedly experienced APB helms who I wouldn’t want taking out a bunch of passengers.

Yep all true [emoji106]

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by GuyC

....That seems to be a characteristic of these (and most other marine) standards. They are often open to interpretation and two surveyors may have different takes on the application of the same rule.

Surveyors also have their own likes and dislikes and whilst something may appear to be black and white, a surveyor will use their own judgement in laying down the law.....

Absolutely.
The boat I fought with the surveyor over for months (the safety rails are two inches too low, the weather-deck is too low, too much "free water space" etc. magically passed coding three weeks after I sold it on with no modifications.

Basically I was "mugged" by the surveyor.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Absolutely.
The boat I fought with the surveyor over for months (the safety rails are two inches too low, the weather-deck is too low, too much "free water space" etc. magically passed coding three weeks after I sold it on with no modifications.

Basically I was "mugged" by the surveyor.

Pfffft! Wee buns - I overheard the following conversation on a boat being surveyed for coding renewal.

Surveyor: "This boat can't be recoded for this class - it's not suitable. Who surveyed it last?"

Skipper: "Your boss."

Surveyor: "Nice boat, I'll send you on the papers..."

[Andre]

Interesting thread especially since I have had Grey Mist MCA Coded to CAT3 (R) WORKBOAT endorsed . The difference in equipment between CAT4 and CAT3(R) is that the lifejackets must have an approved light, a floating light with rope on the lifebuoys and a searchlight onboard.
First hand I can tell you that the required safety and survival equipment is not cheap so if you will not be doing this as a business on a regular basis it is not worth coding the rib.
I am doing it part time (Grey Mist Rib Charter )but when the time comes to sell the rib she will sell better as a coded rib

Best of luck whichever option you choose

[craig_c]

Spoke to the local surveyor

He has recommended Cat 4 / 3R

Next stop is the insurance company, hopefully they see some sense that its occasional and will bring the spec and safety of the boat up.

All I am missing is the thermal protective stuff, in date flares and first aid.

AIS could be fitted easily but I will check with him on that. Very reasonable guy and no major pitfalls forseen

[GuyC]

Good news.

If AIS is an easy fit, then I'd do it as it demonstrates to the surveyor that you are doing as much as you can to improve safety. You may need a beneficial interpretation on something else that is less easy to resolve and you don't want to use up all your 'favours' early on.

[Iankristy]

Ais isn’t cheap. It’s not required for coding so shouldn’t be an issue for surveyor. I’d save my money for the obligatory unforeseen expenses that always happen with boats. That said your local port authority may require it for commercial vessels( mine doesn’t) and if you plan operating in a busy commercial area it would be a smart/ safe move to fit. If it’s busy with lots of leisure vessels it won’t help you anyway.

[Ed G]

So are you up and running commercially now?