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Old 10 May 2010, 04:58   #1
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Continuing Saga

I have been in contact with all named persons for this cover including my insurers through Porthcawl who as usual have been very helpful. I had a very interesting conversation regarding Insurance for third party liability which is why shore based cover is so high. Presently the law is in favour of the scumbags who steal from us. If one breaks into my store and trips and breaks a leg he can sue me! The insurers have seen a rise in similar claims which is why we all suffer.
I asked the reason for water based and shore based cover being different, and found that the cover on water is easier to argue as providing we as operators have done all that is reasonable to reduce risks and injuries (i.e full briefings, knowledge of any passengers with injuries) and the person ignored our briefings/advice then the claim can be argued and lowered/dismissed.

One horrendous story was someone trying to sue an operator for an injury some months ago. In all honesty I do not know all names of passengers so will be changing my policy with a list for each run/days out etc. This came about with another scumbag making a claim for an injury on a RIB and luckily although no records were kept of passengers when the claim went to hearing the operator found that they were off the water on that day due to strong winds.

The broker has sent me a word doc which I will adopt to use which covers most and will lst every person for every trip. I had adopted a similar one but it was not deatiled eneough and meant someone could have claimed when I had no full record.
Interesting developments again despite trying to cover all angles I again will be closing loopholes
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Old 10 May 2010, 07:02   #2
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Avoiding compensation claims

what is the criteria for making an injury claim on a rib........when does one become a scumbag? One of the reasons I walked away from that work, apart from better money elsewhere, was that I kept thining it was only a matter of time before I brought someone back injured.

One of the problems is it's sold as exiting which infers it's tuff stuff and not everybody is as tuff as they think they are.Particularly when it comes to back trauma

Sorry that John let you down, I don't like people I reccomend going flakey so I'll have a winge at him about that. But I've always found him on the case

might be worth starting up a new thread about passenger safety, claim avoidance etc.
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Old 10 May 2010, 07:41   #3
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Re keeping records. We make sure that everyone not only signs to say they have read our terms and conditions, but also then list each person on each trip. Painful I know, but worth it in the long run. I have been told to keep these records for 6 years ....
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Old 10 May 2010, 10:02   #4
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what is the criteria for making an injury claim on a rib........when does one become a scumbag? One of the reasons I walked away from that work, apart from better money elsewhere, was that I kept thining it was only a matter of time before I brought someone back injured.

One of the problems is it's sold as exiting which infers it's tuff stuff and not everybody is as tuff as they think they are.Particularly when it comes to back trauma

Sorry that John let you down, I don't like people I reccomend going flakey so I'll have a winge at him about that. But I've always found him on the case

might be worth starting up a new thread about passenger safety, claim avoidance etc.
Answering you about scumbag I suppose the time they choose to claim unfairly or nick from me, as for making a claim for injury whilst nicking off me I guess thats another fight!

The criteria I would hazard a gues is that if a passenger/client claims they have an injury as a result of our activity the door would open up to a claim. I even carry an injury report book just in case and ask if everyone is ok regularly. It seems overkill but worth the effort to ensure comfort and safety. The insurer stated that if a client ignored your instruction to sit a certain way and not grab a tube line (as happened in Ribcraft accident in Swansea) then their claim can be removed or reduced. All about being sensible and keeping an eye on everyone.

No worries about John I like referals as they are the best, same with our work.

I was regularly reading about others misfortunes on RYA site or MAIB and would change policies to meet new challenges. This latest list was one I had not kept despite getting signatures and as 250 states- keep for a long while. Useful idea from insurers includes the helm on the day and boat, all worth while and a constant review will always be done to ensure everyones safety and that I am not getting turned over by someone.
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Old 10 May 2010, 10:16   #5
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Re keeping records. We make sure that everyone not only signs to say they have read our terms and conditions, but also then list each person on each trip. Painful I know, but worth it in the long run. I have been told to keep these records for 6 years ....
Check how long it is that they can sue you for.

I seem to remember the time limit for court action for personal injury being somewhat longer than the Data Protection Act requirement to keep documentation.

It's a while back that I heard this so if it was true it may have changed by now.
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Old 10 May 2010, 11:21   #6
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Check how long it is that they can sue you for.

I seem to remember the time limit for court action for personal injury being somewhat longer than the Data Protection Act requirement to keep documentation.

It's a while back that I heard this so if it was true it may have changed by now.
Its generally 3 years from the accident, but if the person is under 18 at the time it will be their 21st birthday, you can also argue that at the time of the accident you were unaware of the injury / severity and then the 3 years would run from when you became are of it.
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Old 10 May 2010, 11:48   #7
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Its generally 3 years from the accident, but if the person is under 18 at the time it will be their 21st birthday, you can also argue that at the time of the accident you were unaware of the injury / severity and then the 3 years would run from when you became are of it.
That explains what happened to a friend of a friend.
A child ran out into a main road and went under the rear wheel of his trike.She was quite seriously injured.She sued him 10+ years later when she was 18.

Never did hear the outcome but he was facing bankruptcy because there was no proof of insurance and he was going to have to pay the whole lot himself.The insurance company had wiped the records and he didn't have his old policy document.
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Old 10 May 2010, 13:48   #8
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The criteria I would hazard a gues is that if a passenger/client claims they have an injury as a result of our activity the door would open up to a claim. I even carry an injury report book just in case and ask if everyone is ok regularly. It seems overkill but worth the effort to ensure comfort and safety. The insurer stated that if a client ignored your instruction to sit a certain way and not grab a tube line (as happened in Ribcraft accident in Swansea) then their claim can be removed or reduced. All about being sensible and keeping an eye on everyone.
I'm unawre of a Ribcraft accident in Swansea but I do know about the Celtic Pioneer incident in Cardiff, is that the one your referring to?

This is a quote from the report

After between 5 and 10 minutes the hands of the female passenger seated in the front row on the port side of the boat became wet and cold. onsequently, she found it difficult to maintain her grip and posture and had to steady herself by holding onto the rope attached to the buoyancy tube (Figure 2) with her left hand. The owner sensed that she was uncomfortable and instructed the skipper to stop. He then asked the passengers if they were okay and offered them the opportunity to change seats. The majority of passengers responded positively, and one opted to move from his seat at the rear of the boat to the vacant one positioned furthest forward. Several of the passengers did not feel comfortable but did not voice their concerns. The skipper and owner then assessed that everyone was okay, and continued with the trip.quote ends

I don't think that accident wa the pasengers fault at all and the MAIB certainly didn't come out that way. It's posible that the passenger was to much of a wuss to go on a rufty tufty rib ride and that has to be the skippers call surely.

To take your point if somebody blatently ignores or is unable to comply with the Skippers safety instructions, surely the Skipper takes them back to shore and puts them off the boat, i would think that failure to do this abrogates the duty of care the skipper and operating company has towards the passengers.?

re T & C's can people realy sign away their human rights? They obviously have a right not to be injured and I can see any terms and conditions circumventing that. Neither do I believe not puting an accident report in an accident book means you can't claim for an injury that might have been worse than you thought.

Go on Pollers get the pinking shears out and start a new thread
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Old 10 May 2010, 15:00   #9
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I'm unawre of a Ribcraft accident in Swansea but I do know about the Celtic Pioneer incident in Cardiff, is that the one your referring to?

Your right I was nearly at the right town
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Old 10 May 2010, 15:45   #10
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no wuries

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