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Old 03 June 2015, 03:34   #21
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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
No I did not.
Oh yes you did! (It's behind you!! )

Moving on from that, you appear to have replied to thread concerning the merits of manuals v autos in a commercial RIB scenario with a general discourse about the merits of manuals in ANY environment? Which is fair enough on the surface but as my comments were made to address the OPs specific query you have dragged me into your off-topic debate. Mrs willk does that too

If we can return to the OPs question, do you issue manual lifejackets to your passengers, and if so, what are your reasons?
When issuing auto jackets to mine, I explain how the manual toggle works, but I reckon many of them would fail to use it if required. Addressing your rather facetious comment about preinflating jackets, it's worth mentioning that I'm obliged to carry a SOLAS foam LJ for each POB, in addition to the autos they wear. Until very recently, only a SOLAS approved auto jacket (double mechanism) was permitted. I'd be heavily fined or jailed for issuing a manual inflation jacket, depending on the circumstances.
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Old 03 June 2015, 03:39   #22
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And seeing as this is a rib forum it's fair to assume your unlikely to get stuck in a cabin
Yes, certainly none of the Redbay squad have managed to flip one yet but Alan Priddy may have something to add
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Old 03 June 2015, 04:02   #23
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Originally Posted by Doug Stormforce View Post
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I'm not saying manuals are better, however i believe they have several advantages over autos, just as auto have their own advantages.
Just to be completely clear, are you saying that for RIB passengers you consider it to be more appropriate to issue manual lifejackets than autos?

If that's the case I question your risk assessment.
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Old 03 June 2015, 05:27   #24
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At the risk of stirring things up again...

I have a SIB. I think most people would agree that SIB's are rather wet boats and you expect to get wet - or at least wetter than a RIB.

I've always had foam LJ's or orally inflated only (no gas canister). I recently went through the process of assessing which LJ to buy for myself and decided that for my purposes a hydrostatic style probably would have suited me the best, however unfortunately the costs were prohibitive.

The auto's for me would be pointless, I have waders to launch and regularly get chest deep in swell and don't like to go into the water without a LJ or PFD of some description as wading out over rocks is going to be one of the most likely times I'll fall over and drown. Equally when underway I'm not bombing around at anywhere near the rate you guys do, and the most likely time that I'll go over is during slow manoeuvres, of which I'm in control for so am the most likely one in the boat to expect bumps etc. I do however frequently get spray which would also likely set off the auto's.

In the end I decided on a manual as a compromise. Much better than orally inflated, less bulky than a foam, less likely to go off unexpectedly in spray/while launching and I can actually afford it. (cue the "you shouldn't put a price on safety equipment" posts)

I do however still have my foam LJ, and I always issue foam LJ's to guests who come out with me. These are people who generally have never been out in a boat before, plus the foam keeps them warm and makes them feel a bit more secure. If the weather is particularly manky or cold then I'll wear the foam instead of my manual.

My risk assessment concerning my life - I've made my decision based on practicality, and it affects my own life only.
My risk assessment concerning other's - I've made again based on practicality. I'm giving them the most reliable form of PFD that they don't have to do anything with and keeps them warmest and happiest.

I believe that all (almost) products have a place and purpose. Nothing is ideal for every purpose. It's getting the right product for the right purpose that matches your acceptable compromises that's the challenge.

What I do isn't meant to influence what others do and is my choice. I'm merely explaining my reasoning.
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Old 03 June 2015, 06:04   #25
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At the risk of stirring things up again...
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Originally Posted by Searider View Post
What are operators thoughts on having auto inflate lifejackets?

The code doesn't specifically require them but I always strongly advise my customers to have them when I'm inspecting a boat.

I overheard a safety briefing at the weekend where the operator was telling the customers that if they found themselves in the water that they would need to pull the cord to inflate their lifejackets. What happens if you hit something on the way out?
You haven't stirred things up - but you have explained your thinking on Manual V Auto LJs in a leisure environment. However, the thread starter wasn't asking that question and I've reposted the entire OP above as a reminder. He was referring to LJs in coded boats. All we need now is for someone to throw killcords and twin v singles into the thread to really muddy the water!
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Old 04 June 2015, 15:21   #26
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If I may, I'd like to add to Doug's theme of balance in the discussion. The decision isn't simply manual or auto (but at least I'm delighted that it isn't Lifejacket v. No Lifejacket!) - our guys wear hybrids: 60N of permanent buoyancy and 190N of inflatable buoyancy with UML auto inflaters. Our risk assessment leading to that was to make sure that even if the inflation failed (and I've seen several brand new lifejackets fail on Sea Survival courses) there would still be inherent buoyancy to keep the wearer afloat. On immersion, the jacket should inflate even if the wearer is unable to activate it himself. If the auto Inflate fails, manual inflation is the fallback. It suits our needs, and in my opinion that's pretty important. Different people will have different needs, and different risks - the best solution will be different for them
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Old 04 June 2015, 16:21   #27
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Our risk assessment leading to that was to make sure that even if the inflation failed (and I've seen several brand new lifejackets fail on Sea Survival courses) there would still be inherent buoyancy to keep the wearer afloat.
For my own part, I think that that's a very sensible compromise and I only wish that our DOT would run with it as a holistic solution to their dilemma.

That said, anyone who favours/requires a manual won't go for these either as they have all the "disadvantages"...
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