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Old 12 August 2007, 19:38   #11
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Just read the Heath Lambert details and it says:-

"while the insured is acting as an official RYA coach within the geographical area" etc etc..

So it would not cover any skippering activities at all.
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Old 13 August 2007, 03:37   #12
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Like many centres we insuit that all freelance skippers and instructor carry their own insurance.

Let me give you an example of why.

We have a full public liability, employers liability and individual insuarnace on each boat, building etc.

If I hired a rigging company to do some work aloft on our yacht and he fell who would the claim be made against. Clearly not us, he has been contracted in to do a job and he should be suitable skilled to do his job.

If therefore I hire a self employed instructor to do a job, my insurance company would say his insurnace should cover any accident not mine.

Now if a customer was involved they would claim aganist me and my policy as they have a contract with me not the freelance self employed instructor. My insurance company would in turn claim against the instructors insurance.

I think that the point a lot of freelancers miss is that they are effectivly a business in their own right and as such have to take certain precautions such as agreeing contracts with customers (training centres) and being covered by insurance.

The flip side of this is that all of our employed staff are fully covered by the centres policy, they are part of the business. I think insurance is one of the important differences between self employed and employed instructors.

I have discussed this with Heath Lambert (our current insureres) and Admiral (insured the centre I used to run) and they both came back with self employed skippers need to cover themselves seperatly.

Casting my mind back to my own freelance days, I always felt that the RYA insurance was not enough, back then it coverd you while teaching an RYA course at a RYA centre. What then if you are teaching a non RYA course at a RYA centre or you are cororate skippering for a charter company or underatking some non RYA tuition for a private owner, all of these situations came outside of the scope ogf the RYA coaches indemnity.

Unless this has changed I would suggest to freelance skippers/instructors that they need to take out a public liability to cover all of these risks or at very least raise these sort of quastions with your insurance company, as always make sure the answers come back in writing not by telephone.
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Old 13 August 2007, 04:35   #13
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Thats very interesting (and worrying!) Doug.

The Heath Lambert Instructors Policy as recommended by the RYA has a maximum indemnity limit of 1m per accident. To me, thats adequate (just) as a "backup" insurance assuming you are covered by the Training Schools RYA Approved Insurance.

However, what you are saying - and I am not disputing it but I am surprised - is that the part time (or self employed) instructor is actually liable for the full insurance of the course. You say "My insurance company would in turn claim against the instructors insurance."

Now 1M to cover the 4 people on the RIB, plus 3rd parties - is not enough and indeed Heath Lambert actually make you certify that "the training school holds it own public liability insurance of 2M and the training school insurance covers any coaching you do on their behalf"

Hence as I said above, very worrying.
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Old 13 August 2007, 09:19   #14
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Peter

Did not mean to scare you, Let me clarify my last post.

The boat is insured under the owners/ centres policy, the clients are insured under the centres public liability. If one of the clients sued us for whatever reason and we lost, our insurance company would pay out. If however the freelance instructor was in turn negligent our insureres would look to re-coup from him.

My point really was that freelancers are effectivly 1 man businesses and need to protect themselves.
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Old 13 August 2007, 12:46   #15
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Well I have been in touch with the RYA to see what they say. (And incidentally they are always incredibly helpful and quick to respond).

They reinforce what Doug said, viz - the Centres insurance company would NOT sue an employee of the Centre. However they would sue a freelance instructor if they felt he/she was negligent.

Given that situation, then the freelance instructor could end up with the whole cost of the claim at his/her door and under those circumstances the 1M Heath Lambert instructor cover could well be woefully inadequate.

(Which is exactly why the RYA insist on Centres having 2M cover if I remember correctly).


- And of course this particular can of worms relates only to Instructing. It will be a different ball game altogether with the "commercial skippering" side.
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Old 14 August 2007, 05:22   #16
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Peter

If I was freelancing in various sectors of the industry I would take out a public liability policy to cover all risks (ie policy would state RYA training, delivery, commercial skipper, skipperted charter, dinghy, power sail, pwc etc etc.) If you also teach something else ie water ski get that added to. Policy would also state area ie UK Coastal etc.

This is ony a guess but based on what we pay for the company public liability I would imagine a freelancer would be paying some where between 100 and 150 to cover a wide range of risks for UK, Ireland and Brest to the Elbe.

When taking out insurance of this sort they will partly base your figure on turnover so treat them just like the tax man when giving info.
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Old 14 August 2007, 06:17   #17
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Thanks Doug. In fact I am waiting for Heath Lambert's Marine chap to call me back to discuss exactly this.

My turnover will be tiny anyway as I am out of the UK much of the colder months and only working here a few days a week in the summer.
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Old 18 August 2007, 04:17   #18
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Just received my Quotation from Heath Lambert.

They are quoting for the following:-

a) RYA syllabus training
b) Own boat tuition
c) Corporate Days
d) Boat delivery. (I didnt ask for this but they said it made no difference to the policy).

With an indemnity limit of 3M, the annual policy is 367.50.

Anyone got any comments? Expensive? Fair and reasonable??

My first reaction was "ouch" - but on reflection, its 30 each month out of my earnings. Not too bad.
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Old 18 August 2007, 05:22   #19
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That sound a bit pricey, I would go back to them and point out what your turnover is and place some limits on the policy ie number of days
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Old 18 August 2007, 05:31   #20
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Thanks Doug. Will have a go at that on Monday, might also try my boat insurers to see what they say.
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