Nearly there!

[crazyhorse]

Bear Grylis is no liar as far as I am concerned.

I find it upsetting the way you are treating him and his crew over this fine achievment,but there again we all decide what we want to beleve.

He is not what you are all trying to make him out to be,in my oppinion.

It costs real money to defend yourself and unless you can prove a significant losses, the Barristers are the only ones who make any real money,on people trying to defend there reputation. So not many can afford to fight there corner through the courts,So good people wrongfully get bad reputations based on hearsay.

When faced with this situation I would hope if I were Bear and crew that right and wrong would prevail.

He has acieved what most will only dream of.

I beleive he will also acheve even more over the yrs.

4 guys risked it for a biscuit and pulled it off,at times it seemed it was touch and go,but like it or lump it they did it !and all the mutterings in the world aint going to change things.

Tuff S**T
Fastest and first open rib to cross the Atlantic withought any outside assistance by his Northern route.

Well done boys

[DepSol]

John I think you need to read a bit more detail and see what everyone is talking about as they are not disputing the fact that they did it but what they have said about the past present and future. Its the facts that are altered not the achievement.

[crazyhorse]

Sorry I posted twice

[crazyhorse]

Ok Depsol lets have a close look at what he has said ?and was it realy misleading or not?.

First whats the realy bad stuff he has said about the past ?

We can move on to the present and the orfully bad things about the future when we have bottomed this past thing.I have no allegancies to Bear or Alan and in Alans case he has the title for the first and fastest Cabin rib crossing unasisted of this northerly route.But what i cant get my head around is the realy bad stuff he has suposedly said in the past ?What is it,Have I missed something?

If Anybody can enlighten me just about the past things then I may understand things a little better.

Ta

[narked]

It's got absolutely bugger all to do with sour grapes. I've said before, good one Bear for giving this a go, but that doesn't mean his unfair comments should be excused. And as previously said, he hasn't done it unassisted, as they've made fuel stops. He's also not the first to do it assisted, or the first to do it in an open RIB. So, his claims of "first" "unassisted" and "open" are lies. Unless he's actually working off his OWN set of rules, as it's not a valid recognised record anyway due to the route, in which case I reckon he could be classed as the first person of his exact weight, height, build, hair colour or mental state to do it. So, are we to see a new annual book published within the near future, the Bear Grylls Book of World Records?

Going off the official rules, the attempt in 97 would still have been classed as succesful, Bear has been saying it wasn't. He seems to be highly skillful at being economical with the truth, and in this arena, that isn't acceptable. Achieving something amazing like this crossing does not excuse that.

[DepSol]

Originally posted by crazyhorse
Ok Depsol lets have a close look at what he has said ?
Ta

Oi whats this Depsol stuff ...Crazyhorse?

John, really my point is similar to what 'narked' has said and if you look at Bears site he has today retracted some of what he said previously. That to me says he has seen what he has said was wrong changed it and in doing so admitted guilt.

I am just saying he has made a fantastic achievment but why sing his own praises with exagerations because if you then have to retract them it looks worse from the public eye.

Am I right or am I right?

Dom

[crazyhorse]

EE Naked,


1x Unassisted in my book means planned and organised fuel stops ?

Unassisted does not mean getting or accepting a crane lift up onto the deck from an Ice breaker and arriving into port supported by the ice breaker and its crew with the boat lashed onto the deck.

2x He's also not the first to do it assisted (Quote Narked) Yep Agree

3x Or the first to do it in an open RIB (quote Narked ) Ok who did an unassisted planned crossing bye this route before hand then ?.

4x So, his claims of "first" "unassisted" and "open" are lies (quote Narked ) He required no assistance exept for fuel,Which as I have stated in my book is unassisted. The RIB is a open boat with no shelter from the elemants like Alans boat.

5 xUnless he's actually working off his OWN set of rules, as it's not a valid recognised record anyway (Quote Narked) Unfortunatly both teams records are not certified or recognised as records by the UIM and never have been.Including the last ones. So in theory neither have records for this trip as they are not govend by any recognised authority or set of agreed rules,exept those we decide to make up as we go along.?

6 X Going off the official rules (Quote Narked) There arnt any in existance my son unless you can tell us where they are and who holds the keys.?

7 x He seems to be highly skillful at being economical with the truth.(Quote Narked)

Where has he lied ?

[crazyhorse]

Wrong Dom.

I think I now why he altered his text on the report,it was nothng to do with his claims,

It was to do with off the cuff recomending of a product that he thought was brill.

In all fairness he sorted it straight away,To be fair,If every alteration to a text is regarded as an indication of lies than we are all guilty as the next man.

[narked]

"There arnt any in existance my son unless you can tell us where they are and who holds the keys.?"

If that's the case, Alan could have done it being towed by Concorde and claimed it. From what I know, although not using an officially recognised route, Alan and the team did everything else by the official rules. Those rules permitted them to be given a lift back to land, providing before setting off on the rest of the journey they returned to the exact point from which they were given assistance, which they did. Those same rules also state than an unassisted attempt is no longer unassisted if fuel stops are made. So, Bear did an ASSISTED crossing, which Alan and his team did in 97, which regardless of the help they recieved, was still a valid attempt apart from the unrecognised route. So, Bear wasn't the first to do it assisted, nor has he done it unassisted.

Although I was going to say I'm not taking sides here, when I think about it, I am. Alan and his crew deserve the recognition for what they did, and I'll support them with that. Bear does not have the right to hand half truths to news agencies everywhere making it seem like he's the first when he isn't. Yes, it was a great achievement, but lying to make it seem more impressive is a load of bollocks, if you'll pardon my language. Ok, so he may have been the first to do it without having to get helped out of a problem, but again, the rules Alan was working off, and the rules that Bear would have been tied to had he taken an official route, allow that. And it doesn't make one bit of difference what rules Bear was working off, as Alan completed the crossing without breaking the rules HE was working off, and so it cannot be called a failed attempt.

[DepSol]

Originally posted by crazyhorse
Wrong Dom.

I think I now why he altered his text on the report,it was nothng to do with his claims,


In all fairness he sorted it straight away,To be fair,If every alteration to a text is regarded as an indication of lies than we are all guilty as the next man.

Not really John the difference between amendment and retraction is a big gap.

Dom

[Deana Angell]

...sorted it straight away...

I don't think so! There were several bits of misinformation on his site for weeks.

[crazyhorse]

1 x If that's the case, Alan could have done it being towed by Concorde and claimed it (Quote Narked ) Yep sure could?Would of been a lot more interesting.?

2 x Alan and the team did everything else by the official rules (Quote Narked )what or who,s rules are you thinking of ?

3 x Those rules permitted them to be given a lift back to land, providing before setting off on the rest of the journey they returned to the exact point from which they were given assistance. (quote Narked ) Who agreed that very handy rule ?

4 x Those same rules also state than an unassisted attempt is no longer unassisted if fuel stops are made.( Quote Narked) Who,s set rules are these ? As we now this was not run under the UIM rules.

5 x So, Bear did an ASSISTED crossing, which Alan and his team did in 97 (Quote Narked), Alans was more assisted in that it was with the assistance of an Ice breaker ?.

6 x valid attempt apart from the unrecognised route (Quote Narked ) It was a valid attempt apart from the unrecognised route. (Quote Narked ) Was it,which /who,s rules are we using here ?

7 x So, Bear wasn't the first to do it assisted, nor has he done it unassisted. (Quote Narked ) Unfortunatly he is as his boat had no cover and he arrived home via this Northerly route in a open rib .

8x Alan and his crew deserve the recognition for what they did, and I'll support them with that (Quote narked) Yep I agree both should be recognised fairly for what they have both achieved.

9x Bear does not have the right to hand half truths to news agencies everywhere making it seem like he's the first when he isn't (Quote Narked) Yes he does as he is the first and fastest to do it unassisted in an open rib.

10 x but lying to make it seem more impressive is a load of bollocks (Quote Narked) What lies ?

11 x Ok, so he may have been the first to do it without having to get helped out of a problem, but again, the rules Alan was working off,( Quote Narked ) Who,s official rules were these ?

12 x and the rules that Bear would have been tied to had he taken an official route, allow that (Quote Narked) Who,s rules ?


13 x And it doesn't make one bit of difference what rules Bear was working off, as Alan completed the crossing without breaking the rules HE was working off, and so it cannot be called a failed attempt (Quote Narked) Unfortunatly in my book it was a failed atempt cos I work of my own set of rules,not anybody elses.

It requred a lot of courage from both teams and they have in my rule book set two unofficial records,

One fastest first open rib to cross tha atlantic withought outside assistance =Bear Gryliss and team,
and

One fastest Cabin rib to cross the atlantic using a differant route = Alan and crew.

Well done all of you.

Neither is a liar,more like competitive ribsters with loads of bottle.

[narked]

Originally posted by Clive Tully
I’ve bitten my lip about Mr “Bull” Grylls for too long. Whether or not Alan, Jan, Steve and Vic were successful or not in 1997 is not open to different peoples’ interpretations as to what is assisted or unassisted. They did the trip, as with all the trips I have done on Spirit of Cardiff / Jolly Sailor, according to UIM rules - ie the rules of the official international governing body of powerboating. I don’t suppose Bull even knows what the UIM is.

Those rules state that any voyage which requires stops for refuelling and reprovisioning is “assisted”. The only way you can do an “unassisted” passage is by going non-stop without refuelling. As for the business of accepting outside help, it is within the rules, provided that you return to the point where you accepted help in order to continue the passage. This is exactly what happened off Iceland in 1997, and indeed what we did on Spirit of Cardiff last year when the boat was disabled by colliding with a fish farm outside Valletta harbour.

The sad fact is that Bull has no regard for official boating rules, hence his flying a blue ensign when he launched his boat in March, and for flying a white ensign when he arrived at John O’Groats. As far as we know, his boat has never been scrutinised by the RYA for record attempts, and of course the simple fact is that neither the UIM nor Guinness World Records will recognise the Greenland / Iceland route across the Atlantic for a world record. We know - we’ve checked.

I note too that Bull regards much of his route as uncharted for weather. It seems strange, as we had expert weather forecasting all the way across. You just need to get the right people - and you need the experience to judge what’s safe and what isn’t. Bull confesses to coming close to putting out a mayday twice during their crossing. I would suggest that if they came close to it once, that should have been the point at which they ought to have considered the wiseness of carrying on, because they clearly didn’t have the competence. Or perhaps Bull’s record will be a special one for foolhardiness.

[MarkWildey]

Blimey..

Let’s hope that Narked isn’t in the process of attempting to break the static apnoea record cus it looks like CH might low a fuse waiting for a reply.

Peace on earth

Mark

[narked]

Sod that Mark, means holding my breath for nigh on 9 minutes. 4 minutes is plenty for me ta very much

[crazyhorse]

I felt That I would point out that Bear and crew are just as highly regarded by me as Alan and Jan are in there differant accomplishments.

Unfortunatly this thread was being a bit too biased IMHO and not being fair to all the parties involved.

Words like Bull and Lier are not words that apply to 4 guys that challenged the Atlantic together and came close to defeat.

IMHO

Dont do try this at home folks .

[Powerboat]

Enda O'Coineen was I believe the first person to cross the North Atlantic by RIB.

He did this twenty years ago in a 5.5 metre Humber with a 50 hp outboard with a Jury rigged sail.

He did it unassisted.

He was in his 20's when he did it.

The trip was solo ( no crew)

The trip was from Newfoundland to Ireland.

The suggestion in a previous post that he sailed through calm waters are a complete falsehood . He survived at least one capsize.

This was in the days before GPS or Sat comms.

He was the first, the fastest and the bravest. The only element of his record that has been broken is the speed. The only other element of his record that may also have been broken is his age....Depending on the age of the youngest on other crews.

I am pleased that several UK and International magazines have given me an undertaking to publish these facts next month.


Best wishes,


Stuart

[Jono Garton]

I say well done to all! Alan & Crew, Bear, Enda O'Coineen.

I am not looking to join in this heated debate. All is i will say is, we are all looking to push our limits and do a passage for a reason. This could be our own reason or for a record. As to whether each team did ir right or wrong depends on there reason for trying.

-The only thing that i dont agree with is, when people/teams drop sponsors and "Private Sponsors" so quickly when things go wrong.

[Alan Priddy]

Time to stick my oar in!!

CH, I think it would be a very good idea for you to purchase the book of rules for record breaking / setting from the UIM.
Every trip we have ever done have been under the rules and regulations that are laid down by the governing body. Anything else becomes null and void and means nothing. Once you have had a chance to read them perhaps you might like to amend your posting's

As for what Bear has or is claiming I think you will find that he has owned up to his mistakes and has set the record straight on his opening page of his website. He is claiming the first "Unassisted passage" which I have no problem with and has said that we completed the trip to make it the first powered crossing. There have been lots of internal going on's to sort this out and once again I will state " I have always wished Bear and his team well, if anyone knows how bad this trip can be Jan, Steve, Clive and myself are the most quailfied having done it before (3 times).
CH, when you eventualy get your boat and you are faced with big seas you might have a better understanding of why we have fought our corner for the correct outcome. Alan P

PS We are thinking about roller skating to the moon wearing pink under pants to set a new world record. Of course, we wont be going to the moon but if we wear the underpants we will be able to claim it's a record!

[Deana Angell]

It's good to see that Bear has since changed his site but it's too bad he changed his website AFTER the fact. It's like a scientist altering his hypotheses after he knows what the results of the experiment will be. I guess that is what happens when you put the cart before the horse.