Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 30 October 2009, 14:31   #1
JSP
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southport
Boat name: Qudos
Make: 5.4 Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115 V4
MMSI: 235068784
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,930
Your thoughts on this please....

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/sho...ml?page=870489

The goverment wants to change copyright law to allow photos to be used on non commercial website without permission or credit. I've got a feeling there's a small fire with lots of smoke on this. Very worrying though as I've had to fight over copyright many times and after finding one of my images being used today, I'm about to start fighting again.

There's also a Micky mouse petition going
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/copyrightreform/
__________________

__________________
JSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2009, 14:58   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Inverness
Boat name: none
Make: none
Length: 5m +
Engine: none
MMSI: none
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,908
We all post images on here of which the original origin is unknown or unclear and nobody has suggested we credit or pay for them so far.
Commercial use I can see the point but normal "cut and paste" is another story as far as I can see. As a commercial photographer what are you suggesting is "right" ?
__________________

__________________
BruceB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2009, 15:01   #3
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
John,

I realise you may have a different view on this from me as you made your living this way.

Quoted below is the key text from the site you linked, and my comments on them:

Quote:
To simplify the current copyright system, including licensing practices by asking rights holders to broaden their terms of use. For example, a wedding photographer should allow a couple to share their images with their friends online.
it always struck me as odd that I've paid 'you' to take the pictures for me and yet 'you' retain ownership. If I pay a contractor to design a component, write software etc in my professional life I (the company) always ensure that I (we) own the IP that is created. Indeed if I paid you to take commercial pictures I would try to insist the same. I have no problem identifying and crediting the "author" but I don't see why I should pay to get something I paid you for creating in the first place, unless that was some sort of special deal for a discount which it rarely is.
Quote:
To allow non-commercial use by individuals without the need to ask permission for that use (third party organisations such as charities, as well as blog receiving payments via advertising, would still need a license).
this is probably really common sense. Under the current rules its very unlikely that you will sue me for using one of your pictures without permission unless I am profiting from it (and its unlikely you would get awarded any signifcant royalty even if you did - because I would expect the court to penalise me based on the benefit I gained).

The rest of it was just waffle! Although if they are planning some sort of "Permofming Rights Society" equivalent for the photo industry I think that would be bad.

Unless I am mistaken this is part of an overhaul of copyright law which it is claimed would also see a relaxation on sharing digital music amongst friends etc. I wonder if your views on copyright protection for music are the same as for photos?
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2009, 15:35   #4
JSP
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southport
Boat name: Qudos
Make: 5.4 Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115 V4
MMSI: 235068784
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
John,


it always struck me as odd that I've paid 'you' to take the pictures for me and yet 'you' retain ownership. If I pay a contractor to design a component, write software etc in my professional life I (the company) always ensure that I (we) own the IP that is created. Indeed if I paid you to take commercial pictures I would try to insist the same. I have no problem identifying and crediting the "author" but I don't see why I should pay to get something I paid you for creating in the first place, unless that was some sort of special deal for a discount which it rarely is.
There are different pricing structures normally in place amongst photographers. The retaining of copy right on images stems back to the days of film and reprints but still stands today. Most profit for a business is in larger prints or the continued use of the image. The actual price charged for taking the picture, post production and ensuring the print comes outright isn't really a companies bread and butter. The image then has to work for them.
If the the photo and the copyright are to be sold then the fee would increase.
I did allot of work with musicians who used the shots for promotion (flyers, agent portfolio's, posters) which I did at a price where copyright went with them but the image was still credited to me.
Weddings ar a different ball game. I was allot more relaxed than a most wedding photographers I've known. I would do the prints and hand over copies of full rez photos' to the couple to do with as they wished. But with a warning that they may not get the same results in thier prints as the prints I had done for them. As all my equipment is has the same colour profiles and colour calibrated to the printing company I used.
What really gets my goat is when the pictures are used and credited to someone else but not used for commercial use. And I think relaxing the laws would make it harder to get websites to take the images down. I always have proof as I have library's of RAW files.

If say you took one of the pictures I posted on here a long time ago and used it for your desktop or anything else I take it as a compliment. I know the PPI is to low for quality prints of any size. But if you took them and stuck your name next to them ........
Really it's curtsey if you save an image of the net and then put else where on the net, to then give credit to where that image comes from. But in reality that wont happen.
Forgive me if I'm waffling on as I've got a baby boy screaming down my ear and typing with one hand


Quote:
this is probably really common sense. Under the current rules its very unlikely that you will sue me for using one of your pictures without permission unless I am profiting from it (and its unlikely you would get awarded any signifcant royalty even if you did - because I would expect the court to penalise me based on the benefit I gained).

The rest of it was just waffle! Although if they are planning some sort of "Permofming Rights Society" equivalent for the photo industry I think that would be bad.

Unless I am mistaken this is part of an overhaul of copyright law which it is claimed would also see a relaxation on sharing digital music amongst friends etc. I wonder if your views on copyright protection for music are the same as for photos?
Well as a failed person who hung around with musicians (drummer) I do side with that industry but think it's getting a little to over the top and needs to ground itself.



That's the longest post I've ever done on RIbnet and I'll be fecked if I'm reading through it. So any mistakes or stuff that doesn;t make sense please send an email to TeethingLittleShit@babybollox.com
__________________
JSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2009, 15:46   #5
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
John - I think we are probably in agreement! What seems to worry you most is that you get proper credit rather than an expectation of additional revenue. I see that you are concerned and I understand why - but people are already screwing you over now so the current system isn't working. Do you think people might actually be more likely to openly say "this picture is John Singleton's" rather than imply it is their own - if they weren't worried that you would come knocking looking for ...
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 October 2009, 16:03   #6
JSP
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Southport
Boat name: Qudos
Make: 5.4 Searider
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yam 115 V4
MMSI: 235068784
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
John - I think we are probably in agreement! What seems to worry you most is that you get proper credit rather than an expectation of additional revenue. I see that you are concerned and I understand why - but people are already screwing you over now so the current system isn't working. Do you think people might actually be more likely to openly say "this picture is John Singleton's" rather than imply it is their own - if they weren't worried that you would come knocking looking for ...
IT's two different games really.
Take the one I found today. It's posted only posted on a website (as far as I know) and someone is claiming credit for it. Now that's anoying and I've had this happen in the past. All I want from that is to worry the sites admin/owners to take it down. Which normally doesn't take much. But I worry under relaxed laws where they would start to think "Well screw you!"
It isn't that hard at all to go to your local county courts, fill in the forums and send the other side a copy. I've never had it go much further than.
that. Would it be the same if, after the Chinese whispers on the net (much like the cannabis is now legal crap when they brought it down a band or two) I did the same thing?

I've known people who have had to take these things to court but over their work being put into print. One is still on going over a BBC book. Another had to battle a daily paper.
In a game much bigger than I ever was involved in, copyright ownership of photos' can be just as big as the copyright on music. They better make any changes to the law watertight with a flick of sikaflex over it just to make sure.
__________________

__________________
JSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 00:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.