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Old 14 October 2013, 15:17   #161
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ahhh. so ( and im not going to 'PC') - sailing nobber - who should have known better - may get off on a technicality ...
If he gets off as 'it could have been speeding' it'll serve a huge blow to the freedom of navigation we all enjoy in the UK.....
Well you may be jumping the gun a bit thinking he will get off on a "technicality". There are multiple charges and I think it is doubtful that all of them would be escaped on a technicality.

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Yes he may be using this defense but no way can Harbour authorities be blamed, this is a working port and they do a great job securing safe passage for all.
well I'm not necessarily "blaming" the harbour authorities - but had this resulted in a fatality then I think either the MAIB or the Coroner might have been asking the wisdom of mixing the traffic at the same time! Whilst this event has run for many years without serious collisions its hardly an unforseable circumstance, and whilst ecconomically it might be unpalletable to either disrupt the commercial shipping or to move the race an impartial observer might arrive at the conclusion that you can't simply rely on the usual 1 escort boat provision during cowes week. The Solent is a nightmare on a normal summer weekend never mind Cowes week.

You might also conclude that there are probably numerous other vessels both during Cowes week and at other times who significantly encroach on the MPZ but get nothing more than a verbal bollocking - that attitude sends out the wrong message and positive enforcement action by the HM/MCA as appropriate should be encouraged.

I'm not pointing the finger at the Harbour Authorities - but I wouldn't have been surprised if part of the defence strategy was to point out the fact that the pilots knew there was a big event on and didn't take sufficient precautions - remembering that the defence don't have to prove someone else was at fault just plant sufficient doubt.

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No speed restrictions I am aware of in this area except when fireworks night and they send out a mariners notice.
I've not investigated but there seemed to be some discussion in court which suggested there WAS a 10 knot speed limit that applied to the tanker.

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The signal to turn to starboard he heard we believe is one horn of FIVE!!
ah, that is why it is always dangerous to draw conclusions from only part of the evidence (the youtube clip). There appears to be uncontested evidence that the tanker signalled a turn to starboard (on the instructions of its pilots) but did not execute the turn because of a broken down motor vessel. Its not clear if that was - no turn at all, a slower turn to startboard or as one report suggested a turn to port.

There are still several days of evidence to go so presumably there is still scope for a few more twists and turns!
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Old 14 October 2013, 15:26   #162
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ahhh. so ( and im not going to 'PC') - sailing nobber - who should have known better - may get off on a technicality
I'm not sure it is a technicality he's going for. A technicality would be something like saying the GPS data is unreliable because its only accurate to 100m and so its possible the two boats didn't even touch and were 200m apart. He's not going for that kind of defence. (OK that defence might have been tricky!) If there was a speed limit (and the Pilot under oath said no speed limit applies) then I see it more like someone going through a red light colliding with someone who they say was speeding... ...maybe you'll convince the judge that the extent of the damage wasn't all your fault.

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A lot of us southerners screech about that area with no issue - and manage not to hit the various bloody great big ( really hugely big tankers etc ) boats that pass that way each day ( no matter if they are turning, stopping , dancing a jig or whatever ).
Those of you who screech at least wont get stopped by the wind shadow.

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If he gets off as 'it could have been speeding' it'll serve a huge blow to the freedom of navigation we all enjoy in the UK.....
Why? Why would requiring him to be certified make any difference to the ship speeding...
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Old 15 October 2013, 06:39   #163
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He's not going to win, anyone who knows that water and tide will know that the tanker wasn't doing anything wrong, he was being watched by radar from dock head, he can't go port or starboard because of his draft and also Fawley oil terminal and he can't stop, you can tell the yachts skipper is an idiot quite easy, he didn't admit he was in the wrong, I meet them all the time motoring up the hamble with cloth up telling me to give way to sail
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Old 15 October 2013, 11:52   #164
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I meet them all the time motoring up the hamble with cloth up telling me to give way to sail
...and then turning across your bow at the last minute.
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Old 15 October 2013, 14:40   #165
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He's not going to win, anyone who knows that water and tide will know that the tanker wasn't doing anything wrong, he was being watched by radar from dock head, he can't go port or starboard because of his draft and also Fawley oil terminal and he can't stop, you can tell the yachts skipper is an idiot quite easy, he didn't admit he was in the wrong, I meet them all the time motoring up the hamble with cloth up telling me to give way to sail


Took the words out of my mouth Biffer.....

Lets just get something clear here....there is no speed limit for commercial traffic in virtually the whole of the Solent. The only permenent speed limit in place is from the Western Shelf buoy northwards past dock head and into the docks.
Of course VTS can enforce temporary limits anywhere they choose whithin their jurisdiction but, unless they specifically requested a speed reduction in that area on the day (which they didnt) then commercial traffic can proceed at any speed they choose.
For info the maximum speed an inbound VLCC can achieve will be in the region of about 12kts. This is not due to limitations on the tanker but of the tug escorting her in. The tugs are running flat out at 12kts.

Those that know me will appreciate my vested interest in the case as, like biffer, i,m confronted with eejuts like that tw#t on a nearly daily basis ( in the summer time anyway).
Even though im probally biased in this case, i do agree with what Poly said....its madness these days organizing such an event in such a location. Probably Ok 30 years ago when commercial shipping was only making up a fraction of what it is now but traffic entering thr port of Soton has increased dramatically over the last 20 years and is only set to increase further.

What a lot of people will not realise is how much money it costs to delay a large commertial vessel.....demurrage fees alone can sometimes go into of tens of thousands of pounds per day...and thats just for one vessel.

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Old 15 October 2013, 15:53   #166
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law on your side or not, right wrong. did we cover the part where you don't step/sail/motor in front of the mother huge speeding car/truck/oil tanker?

It's a long thread and I admit I didn't read it all so you might have covered that part. The part where you are dead because you may have had the right of way but the vehicle that is 10 million time larger than you just flattened you....
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Old 15 October 2013, 16:53   #167
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law on your side or not, right wrong. did we cover the part where you don't step/sail/motor in front of the mother huge speeding car/truck/oil tanker?

It's a long thread and I admit I didn't read it all so you might have covered that part. The part where you are dead because you may have had the right of way but the vehicle that is 10 million time larger than you just flattened you....
The stand on vessel was the tanker and the sailing yacht was the stand off vessel (IRPCS rule 18 sail gives way to vessel restricted by draught).

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Old 15 October 2013, 17:17   #168
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The stand on vessel was the tanker and the sailing yacht was the stand off vessel (IRPCS rule 18 sail gives way to vessel restricted by draught).

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Old 15 October 2013, 17:54   #169
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The more times I watch the clip, the more amazed I am that nobody was seriously hurt or even killed.
I know if I was the skipper on that Yacht that would keep me awake for many a night, regardless of any minor technicality.
IMO stupid, stupid WAFI .
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Old 15 October 2013, 18:02   #170
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The more times I watch the clip, the more amazed I am that nobody was seriously hurt or even killed.
I know if I was the skipper on that Yacht that would keep me awake for many a night, regardless of any minor technicality.
IMO stupid, stupid WAFI .
+1 AND a serving Naval Officer (at the time) who should know the practical rules
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