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Old 15 March 2006, 11:21   #71
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I hold a FAC and have done so for many years. “Pre Dunblane” I owned handguns, rifles and shotguns. I used to reload all my own ammunition and would happily spend hours tinkering with ballistics to try and match the perfect load for a particular gun. I can understand that people don’t like the idea of “civilians” owning guns, based on what they see on television. However there is a world of difference between guns used for target shooting, be it paper targets at 25 metre for a pistol or 1,000 yds for a bench rest rifle and those that used to be used for disciplines like practical pistol, where the pistols were developments (very expensive developments ) of standard police or services issue. Now, in the “Post Dunblane” era, I may not own a single shot .22 target pistol. Bearing in mind that these have the muzzle energy of not much more than a pea shooter, yet I can still possess a .44 calibre carbine, a 12 gauge shotgun or a military calibre rifle, all of which have massive muzzle energy capacity. Do those people who clamour “pistols are only made for killing people” have any understanding of this at all? I think not.
The “gun culture” that undoubtedly exists and is growing in this country, despite what statistics have been quoted here, fuelled by popular culture. How many of the young (or even not-so-young )kids, who find guns cool, because a music idol sings about them or is seen to carry them, or in the case of that arsewipe, 50-cents, has even been shot, actually have any comprehension of the damage that a bullet can do?
The man beaten about the head, who doesn’t get up as in the films, but spends the rest of his life having to wear nappies because he is incontinent. The youngster who is shot in the leg with a cheap eastern block pistol who doesn’t just suffer a slight limp, but who has to have his leg amputated and remains dependant on his parents for the rest of his life. What about showing the operation to replace a man’s face and scalp after he’s been hit with a broken glass?

Get rid of the glamorisation, the myths and the “coolness” of violence in any form and replace it with education about the real effects.

Don’t get sucked into the argument that banning the possession of handguns, especially those specifically built for target shooting, has had any effect on gun crime.

As an aside…

I do feel that “Pre Dunblane” the licensing authorities were getting a little lax. I had, at one time, four large calibre hand guns in my safe. Now that was an awful lot of “fire power”. At the time I was shooting .22 target league, full bore pistol league, practical pistol and had just started to shoot handgun out to 100 metres. Now that’s a discipline that required an awful lot of skill (No, I wasn’t very good ). If the powers that be had restricted FAC holders to one small bore and one full bore I don’t think there would have ever been an issue. However the draconian ban (Knee jerk.. call it what you will) has caused an awful lot of ill feeling, especially in light of the report and enquiries which revealed that Hamilton should never have been “renewed” under existing Police worries about him.

Have I wandered off topic?.....again?

<edit> I confess I didn't bother watching the video clip until now, having seen that sort of thing before, on film and live. However, I can see what some might think..... it is rather "Gung-ho" isn't it ? What I want to know from our ‘Merkin cousins, is the legality of converting pistols to full auto? I thought that was banned, pretty much everywhere. There is a small bit in the clip with a bloke firing two pistols with extended magazines. Are they available or have they been converted from semi auto to full auto (modified sear?). Legal or not?
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Old 15 March 2006, 11:28   #72
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Quote:
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I think you are trying to promote anti firearm feeling by constantly coming back to one example of what guns are used for!
I am not anti gun. I just think its rather warped for civilians to be involved with machine guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo
I don't want to get too drawn into this argument, as I suspect that both of our reasoning has validity, and neither point of view will alter much!

So, I'll leave this one for you to respond to, and look forward to seeing you out on the water! (You'll know my rib, it's the one with the Browning .50 on the bows... )
Nice one.
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Old 15 March 2006, 14:01   #73
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Originally Posted by Jono
What I want to know from our ‘Merkin cousins, is the legality of converting pistols to full auto? I thought that was banned, pretty much everywhere. There is a small bit in the clip with a bloke firing two pistols with extended magazines. Are they available or have they been converted from semi auto to full auto (modified sear?). Legal or not?
Again; these guys are collectors. They are licensed to ownfull-auto firearms. Every one of these firearms are registered with the federal government. The licensees are pretty closely watched.

Legal? For them, yes. For anyone else (like me), definitely a felony.

As an aside, I believe (not sure) that modifying a semi-auto to full auto is not legal. However, with proper licensing, you can buy a full-auto pistol anyway, so what would be the point?

The full-auto shootout is a gathering of the full-auto collectors nationwide. This is sort fo the equivalent of the guys who own ex-military fighter aircraft getting together for an air show. Not something that happens every week.

For Andy, there are a lot of things that originally were designed for things we no longer use them for. Your cricket bat originated from a piece of bone that was used as a club. Your kitchen knife originated from a sharp stone that (egads) was used to kill poor defenseless animals, as well as that other tribe who was trying to steal a quick meal.

I don't know; I saw a 17 year old kid who was being urged to drive faster and faster, to the limit of a car's ability to hold the road. God forbid that he drive like that on the highway, or in a neighborhood. Good thing, I suppose, that he was in a controlled environment, with safety crews and equipment on-hand, as well as professionals who could help teach him.

Funny thing, though; that wasn't a hell of a lot different than the shootout. Controlled environment, safety crews, potential for really bad things if taken from that environment; only thing different was the tool used. Oh, and the inherent bias involved in people looking at them.

jky
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Old 15 March 2006, 14:28   #74
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Does anyone remember the poor bloke killed by a parachute flare at a football match in Cardiff? It actually blew a hole right through his chest from the other side of the stadium!!!

Of course there was a call to BAN flares - then someone realised that maybe that would cause a few problems for mariners so they decided to ban multiple shot pocket type flares as used by windsurfers and hikers etc. If a shop wishes to stock these flares now they have to have a full dealers FAC - bonkers. If it had been one of those flares that caused the damage fair enough but as usual it was just a typical knee jerk reaction!!!
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Old 15 March 2006, 14:31   #75
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Should have just banned Football!
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Old 15 March 2006, 14:34   #76
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An on Jono's note...

I have also been involved with guns for many years - always abroad where they don't have such stupid laws.

Recently I had to hand in a lovely replica air cartridge revolver to be destroyed by the Police. The gun had a power of 6ftlbs of muzzle energy(shotgun 2,000).How much compensation did I get? Not a bloody penny - £250 down the drain!!! WHY? Because it can be converted into a normal gun - yes and so can a few pieces of steel and a piece of wood!!!

If you have the equipment to convert one of these guns you would still need a source of ammo - if you have the equipment you can just as easily knock up a crude gun from scratch.

Of course I handed my gun in - if I hadn't I would be looking at a MANDATORY 5 yrs in prison!!! Wonder if any of the Yardies handed theirs in????
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Old 15 March 2006, 14:41   #77
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perhaps one day we can have a duel, pistols at dawn!! hopefully my time in the RAF shooting team will fair well!
Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
An on Jono's note...

I have also been involved with guns for many years - always abroad where they don't have such stupid laws.

Recently I had to hand in a lovely replica air cartridge revolver to be destroyed by the Police. The gun had a power of 6ftlbs of muzzle energy(shotgun 2,000).How much compensation did I get? Not a bloody penny - £250 down the drain!!! WHY? Because it can be converted into a normal gun - yes and so can a few pieces of steel and a piece of wood!!!

If you have the equipment to convert one of these guns you would still need a source of ammo - if you have the equipment you can just as easily knock up a crude gun from scratch.

Of course I handed my gun in - if I hadn't I would be looking at a MANDATORY 5 yrs in prison!!! Wonder if any of the Yardies handed theirs in????
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Old 15 March 2006, 15:15   #78
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i live for my fire arms and pyro, but i do beleive the law's are wrong.
my group was recently stoped in rhyader wales, in car due to the way we was dressed, was held there for 2 hrs due to what we was carrying , all legal to us, that is the bit that did it, how can we, meger earth lings. carry the items that we had and the police are not even allowed it. them selfs,
we run a very big business in what we do and carrying all strange fire arms and explosives, is normal to us, but it is fully liscenced and legal.
my point is people like us struggle with this, the yardie gangster, does what he does and will allways do, you would not believe the paper work we have to contend with,or the cost of our insurance policy/ due to these ass holes

as jono says our passion is a bang or shoot, and pay good money to enjoy our out look on life, which in turn puts some people some place in a job with manufacture and ammo supplies, takes one deranged lunatic to spoil it for hundreds of others. wrong very bloody wrong


http://www.hfmgroup.com/ we do stock some goodies
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Old 15 March 2006, 15:50   #79
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As a matter of interest to the gun experts here , what is law concerning using a gun at sea .

I always fancy shooting at a floating target with my airgun when on my friends colvic motor sailer but have never done so as Iam unsure of the law.

On a boat that does 5 knots you need something to pass the time
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Old 15 March 2006, 15:57   #80
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You now face 5 yrs in jail if you shoot an airgun in a public place - yes seriously!!! And it's not "up to" it IS 5 yrs - same as if you had an MP5 - something wrong somewhere - yet another one of Blair's 3,000 new laws sneaked in last year alone!!!

Wether the sea is a public place is another thing. And a lot depends on how far out you are - 12 miles is international waters.
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