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Old 15 March 2006, 07:15   #61
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Originally Posted by ian parkes
Passed the tamar river police boat at weekend , armed policeman standing on stern with assault rifle watching me carefully as I passed the Dockyard .

I can think of a reason for that machine gun , Cornish Holiday Town seagulls
or could it have been nuclear submarines moored up or armament replensishment going on...
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Old 15 March 2006, 07:19   #62
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If you beat someone with a cricket bat, you going to ban them? How about bricks? You can throw them, best ban them!
Cricket bats are not designed to kill people. Get real.

I'll say again: people have *no need* to 'play' with machine guns. There is *no need* to teach a child to fire a machine gun.

Gangsta rappers like guns. What sort of example are they setting?
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Old 15 March 2006, 08:34   #63
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Gangsta rappers like guns.
Wow, that's a sweeping generalisation. I suppose following on this faultless logic the girl in the video likes killing people with machine guns. No, she likes firing at a moving vehicle and watching what happens to it.

There is no need to teach people to use weapons, and no need for them to play with them. There is also no *need* for people to play Cricket, disturb wildlife with hill walking, pollute the environment in powerboats, drink, smoke, practice archery etc etc. Doesn't mean it can't be fun, safe, and controlled.
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Old 15 March 2006, 09:31   #64
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Wow, that's a sweeping generalisation. I suppose following on this faultless logic the girl in the video likes killing people with machine guns. No, she likes firing at a moving vehicle and watching what happens to it.

There is no need to teach people to use weapons, and no need for them to play with them. There is also no *need* for people to play Cricket, disturb wildlife with hill walking, pollute the environment in powerboats, drink, smoke, practice archery etc etc. Doesn't mean it can't be fun, safe, and controlled.
Fireing machine guns to see what damage they can do is a world away from playing cricket, hill walking & archery, and I am sure you know that really.
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Old 15 March 2006, 09:46   #65
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Fireing machine guns to see what damage they can do is a world away from playing cricket, hill walking & archery, and I am sure you know that really.
I think I would far rather see people take out their agression in a controlled manner than go around taking it out on some poor old age pensioner.

The sort of people who intend to hurt people will do so no matter what. If they don't have guns they will do it in another way.

In Northern Ireland a bloke burst into a school with a fire extinguisher filled with petrol - torched a load of kids - a miracle loads weren't killed.

A car is also a terrible weapon - think how many people you could mow down if you wanted to.

Family wiped out in a house explosion last week - no guns used.

In Northern Ireland they had a ban on ALL guns - didn't seem to stop the IRA did it?
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Old 15 March 2006, 10:29   #66
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Fireing machine guns to see what damage they can do is a world away from playing cricket, hill walking & archery, and I am sure you know that really.
I would dispute that it is a world away from other leisure pastimes, I don't think that's something any of us can say, as it prejudices other peoples enjoyment in comparison to our own.

Your point that Guns are designed to cause injury/death is a valid one. I can accept the logic that if there was nothing in this world **designed** to kill people then yes, this might be a better place. Archery falls into that category, as does fencing. Would you be so negative if the young girl had decided to take up fencing? Same argument - a sword is designed to kill someone?

I think when you look at weapons in general you have two options. One, you take a utopian view that without them the world would be a better place, and see this as an attainable goal.

Two, you take the view that they are an evolution that is irreversible, and that bigger and better weapons will always be developed. IF you take this view, then surely better a known evil? Better that people are trained in safe (and yes, after working with Army Cadets I would argue that there are safe ways) weapon handling, and are fully aware of what it is they are holding, and what it can do? If you shield people, children especially, from these things, then the glorification they see on TV will be their only benchmark. Training and understanding will produce knowledge, not misconception, and that can only be a safer and better philosophy.
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Old 15 March 2006, 10:37   #67
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I think when you look at weapons in general you have two options.

One, you take a utopian view that without them the world would be a better place, and see this as an attainable goal.

Two, you take the view that they are an evolution that is irreversible, and that bigger and better weapons will always be developed. IF you take this view, then ...... safer and better philosophy.
What about option Option 3? You leave machine guns, along with other automatic weapons, in the hands of the military where they belong.

Yes, I think option 3 is the safest, don't you?
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Old 15 March 2006, 10:44   #68
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What about option Option 3? You leave machine guns, along with other automatic weapons, in the hands of the military where they belong.

Yes, I think option 3 is the safest, don't you?
Safest, probably. Still too idealistic? Almost certainly. As a solution, it would help the problem (I don't think it would solve it, as you would still get "in house" incidents). However, as a realistic solution, it is impractical.

Internationally, you cannot expect all militaries to keep that tight a reign on all of their weapons. So, as soon as the conlusion that weapons will fall into the hands of non-military, this solution breaks. At that point, you say, well, if bad intentioned civilians have weapons, perhaps we should arm some of our police. Ok, so we've now just put more small arms outside the Military. What are the chances they might be found by someone else? What are the chances of children being exposed to them? Higher? Well, if there is that increasing chance they are going to have access to small arms, I'd rather they had a knowledge of what these things can do, and how to operate one according to safe procedures.

It's all very well taking the bubble wrap approach, but in my view, it is not practical to expect that even if it was so decreed, weapons would stay in the hands of the Military only. For that reason, instead of looking at it as a major problem, I believe education will diminish potential problems. Not remove, just diminish.
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Old 15 March 2006, 10:57   #69
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It's all very well taking the bubble wrap approach, but in my view, it is not practical to expect that even if it was so decreed, weapons would stay in the hands of the Military only. For that reason, instead of looking at it as a major problem, I believe education will diminish potential problems. Not remove, just diminish.
I think you are trying to come up with a by product of what these rednecks are doing in order to try and in someway justify it. Gathering together at the Idaho Full-Automatic Show, or whatever it was called, has nothing to do with 'education'. If it was so important, we would have it on the National Curriculum.

Look, I don't want to insult anyone, but the reason blokes are into guns is that it makes them feel 'big in the pants'. It gives them kicks. Nothing to do with educating their children.

Any what about the bombs? What were they teaching?
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Old 15 March 2006, 11:07   #70
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I think you are trying to come up with a by product of what these rednecks are doing in order to try and in someway justify it.
I think you are trying to promote anti firearm feeling by constantly coming back to one example of what guns are used for!

Would you argue that real life exposure to weapons will have a different effect to exposure to weapons in films? If you agree with that then you have your answer. Trying to make themselves feel big would have produced a video of "Redneck" blokes having weapon shooting competitions etc. What we saw was a young girl, closely supervised, being allowed to try a fully automatic weapon in a controlled environment. Whether conscious or not, by design or not, that's education. If that young girl's real life experience of weapons is that you always keep them pointed in a safe direction, and carry out loading/unloading procedures, that will stick in her mind far more than when she sees a film depicting a loaded and readied weapon stuck in someone's waistband without the safety catch applied.

I don't want to get too drawn into this argument, as I suspect that both of our reasoning has validity, and neither point of view will alter much!

So, I'll leave this one for you to respond to, and look forward to seeing you out on the water! (You'll know my rib, it's the one with the Browning .50 on the bows... )
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