Speed trap locked on

[Nasher]

If only we could all do this

Nasher

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by Nasher

If only we could all do this

In only anyone could do this...

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/radar.asp

[codprawn]

The original story is not a fake. I remember it being on the Welsh TV news many years ago and it was a Harrier.

When you think of the theory it is perfectly sound. ALARM missiles will lock on to almost any source of RADAR as many units are frequency agile to try and throw off the scent.

[Jono]

.......

[ashbypower]

Mmmm!! Majority of Police hand held guns have a speed range of 5 - 200 Mph!!! Which Supports the Fake theory

[Richard B]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I remember it being on the Welsh TV news

It must be true then!

Originally Posted by codprawn

it was a Harrier.... ALARM missiles will lock on to almost any source of RADAR...

ALARM is on the Tornado GR4 armament inventory, I can't find any mention of it for the Harrier.

[codprawn]

Best look a bit harder then.

The advantage of underwing pylons is that you can carry a wide range of weapons.............

[Jono]

Later "Sea borne" Harriers (the up rated ones) , can/could carry A.L.A.R.M missiles...but...all the evidence, gathered by far more knowledgeable persons than I, suggests that the story is bullshit. Yet Codders, still says it’s true….
Does anyone know of the range of a Police hand held Radar gun that they were using in that period? I thought it was quite short and how far away would a Harrier have to be for the most shortsighted of our Police force not to have seen it? I believe that the Radar guns only read up to 199 MPH before they show “- -“ .
So Codders, step up with a convincing argument…

[Nasher]

Ever wish you'd not started something?

Nasher

[Bigmuz7]

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Jono

Later "Sea borne" Harriers (the up rated ones) , can/could carry A.L.A.R.M missiles...but...all the evidence, gathered by far more knowledgeable persons than I, suggests that the story is bullshit. Yet Codders, still says it’s true….
Does anyone know of the range of a Police hand held Radar gun that they were using in that period? I thought it was quite short and how far away would a Harrier have to be for the most shortsighted of our Police force not to have seen it? I believe that the Radar guns only read up to 199 MPH before they show “- -“ .
So Codders, step up with a convincing argument…

I said it was reported on the local BBC news at the time - before the Internet was around.

The range on a Radar gun? About the same as the length of a piece of string!!! The ACCURATE range is listed at 1.25 miles or 6600 feet - in practice electromagnetic waves can travel a tad further than that.......

As to ALARM or HARM or any other kind of missile it would have been the aircraft's own radar warning receiver that would have detected the threat. They tend to be pretty sensitive..............

[Jono]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I said it was reported on the local BBC news at the time - before the Internet was around.

No..what you said was..

Originally Posted by codprawn

The original story is not a fake.

Originally Posted by codprawn

I remember it being on the Welsh TV news many years ago and it was a Harrier.

April 1st was it?

[havener]

Total and utter b0llocks.

Impossible on so many levels.

Codders - if you're still in any doubt, I can put you in touch with the definitive source of thee above comment - relative of mine, instructor at RAF Valley.

Unless of course you know more than a mere GR4 jockey...

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by havener

Total and utter b0llocks.

Impossible on so many levels.

Codders - if you're still in any doubt, I can put you in touch with the definitive source of thee above comment - relative of mine, instructor at RAF Valley.

Unless of course you know more than a mere GR4 jockey...

Are you REALLY telling me that a radar detector on an aircraft can't pick up a radar transmitter being pointed skywards???

[havener]

A number of factors determine whether an aircraft defence/attack radar would pick up something like a speed gun :

Strength of signal - radar gun, pretty minimal strength. The system may well pick it up - but would discount it after running through onboard database of known hostile / arms systems. "Own forces" attack radar would show as friendly anyway.

Other radars in the area - unlikely in Wales, but both civil and mil. ATC radar could overwrite the speed gun signal.

Where the story really falls down is the "lock on" bit - probably written by someone who's watched too much Top Gun. UK aircraft flying in exercise configuration would not have autolock engaged - and there is no system whereby the aircraft's missile system could override pilot consent to fire anyway. Again, given the aircraft's alleged location, it's systems would be looking more for IFF squawks than for hostile radar signals. Any expected hostile radars would be part of the exercise on known bands.

In short, would the GR4 seea speed gun? Probably.
Would it ignore it completely - Highly probable.
Would it treat as hostile, obtain missile lock, and suggest to fire / arm missiles - absolutely never.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by havener

A number of factors determine whether an aircraft defence/attack radar would pick up something like a speed gun :

Strength of signal - radar gun, pretty minimal strength. The system may well pick it up - but would discount it after running through onboard database of known hostile / arms systems. "Own forces" attack radar would show as friendly anyway.

Other radars in the area - unlikely in Wales, but both civil and mil. ATC radar could overwrite the speed gun signal.

Where the story really falls down is the "lock on" bit - probably written by someone who's watched too much Top Gun. UK aircraft flying in exercise configuration would not have autolock engaged - and there is no system whereby the aircraft's missile system could override pilot consent to fire anyway. Again, given the aircraft's alleged location, it's systems would be looking more for IFF squawks than for hostile radar signals. Any expected hostile radars would be part of the exercise on known bands.

In short, would the GR4 seea speed gun? Probably.
Would it ignore it completely - Highly probable.
Would it treat as hostile, obtain missile lock, and suggest to fire / arm missiles - absolutely never.

I agree the actual "lock on" bit is bollocks. Much like journalists seem to think that drop tanks are large bombs.

Modern systems are much better at filtering out the crap. They have databases as you say that can compare all sorts of threats. However the story I heard was a long time ago now. RWRs weren't as advanced - some of the really early ones just had a red light that illuminated when you were being painted.

I suspect what happened is that possibly the system did issue an alert which the pilot chose to ignore.

Maybe missile designers need to look at the humble radar gun if modern databases are excluding it....................

I admit my recollection of the originally story is a bit hazy - I think it was back in the 80s!!!

[BruceB]

Well sidewinders as mentioned are heat seekers rather than radar guided missiles.........

[Bertus]

if somewhat is true, dam that dutch pilot. and then I know a lot of targets over here in Holland.

Still the story gives me a big smile
I hope that the todays equipments are Capebel of tracking a police officer. would like to see them run fast ........... ...........when a apache helli is playing around

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I agree the actual "lock on" bit is bollocks. Much like journalists seem to think that drop tanks are large bombs.

If you fill them up with napalm they can be quite effective

It is blx though for a dozen technical reasons as already explained