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Old 13 December 2004, 08:02   #21
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Originally Posted by Jono
Oi! How did you know my beard was going grey? I thought the liberal application of "Just for Men" (as recommended by several fellows on here) had discretely covered up the grey bits.....
To change the colour of your bonse, you'd need fkkn fake tan, not greshan 2000!
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Old 13 December 2004, 08:10   #22
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Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller
To change the colour of your bonse, you'd need fkkn fake tan, not greshan 2000!
BEARD you Nobba! Not "bonse".... and at least I'm not Ginger
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Old 13 December 2004, 10:40   #23
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Originally Posted by codprawn

Now being the proud owner of a new Rangie and an old 110 I STILL say offroad the beam axle is better - ON road it is a totally different matter.

And yes I have taken my Vogue on some horrid stuff - on slippery ground the traction control is amazing - and over boulders - but it will hang a wheel in the air much sooner than my 110 will.
Well I'm not sure it's fair to say all generic independantly suspensioned vehicles, are inferior to all live beam axled vehicles just because you think your 110 articulates better than your Rangie.

I'm certain a modern equivalent of the 110, with idependent, instead of the old system, and sprung/damped 'for the job' and obviously with an equivelent amount of travel, would be superior in all ways.

Also, beam axles have a finite limit to ground clearance, due to the diff casing.

All just IMHO

jf
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Old 13 December 2004, 12:16   #24
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Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller
Well I'm not sure it's fair to say all generic independantly suspensioned vehicles, are inferior to all live beam axled vehicles just because you think your 110 articulates better than your Rangie.

I'm certain a modern equivalent of the 110, with idependent, instead of the old system, and sprung/damped 'for the job' and obviously with an equivelent amount of travel, would be superior in all ways.

Also, beam axles have a finite limit to ground clearance, due to the diff casing.

All just IMHO

jf
Of course generalising is wrong - too many grey areas!!! The reason a beam tends to be better is because when a wheel goes up over a rock the whole vehicle goes up with it - not just one wheel - therefore the minimum ground clearance doesn't change. With a normal indi setup it is quite possible to have one wheel pushed up into the wheelarch with the body hardly moving off the floor.

I say normally because the new Rangie can cross link the suspension and automatically raise both sides to compensate.

The diff problem seldom becomes apparent - the sills and the front/rear bumpers tend to foul up first.

Sometimes a beam can actually perform better ON road - it is far more resistant to camber changes than an independent setup - the Rover SD1 used in the BTC was a classic example of this.

For really crazy articulation the Yanks go to extremes(don't they always) with all sorts of mods - in particular on old jeeps. It is interesting to note that in several of thes RTI(ramp travel index) tests the STANDARD old classic Rangie beats a lot of the heavily modded vehicles. Sometimes the mods actually hinder rather than improve.

Basically as far as bog standard vehicles go there is little to touch a landie in it's class other than the old Suzuki SJ410 - won't tow much though!!!!
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Old 13 December 2004, 13:33   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
The reason a beam tends to be better is because when a wheel goes up over a rock the whole vehicle goes up with it - not just one wheel - therefore the minimum ground clearance doesn't change. With a normal indi setup it is quite possible to have one wheel pushed up into the wheelarch with the body hardly moving off the floor.
I think this is opinion, rather than fact.

If the 'whole body' goes up, it must be lightening the load on another wheel at the other end of the vehicle.

When I was into off roading, the way an old rangie would pick it's way over very uneven ground, compared to a cart sprung motor, with less travel, was remarkable. this was I reckon, due to the relatively high weight, and very soft coil sprung setup.

I reckon a vehicle with a very compliant high travel, independent setup, would be better at everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
The diff problem seldom becomes apparent - the sills and the front/rear bumpers tend to foul up first.
I've seen many motors, with both wheels of an axle in deep rutts, spining freely with most of the vehicle weight sitting on the diff casing. you must have seen the same.

jf
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Old 13 December 2004, 13:59   #26
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Right...here goes ... a momentous occasion... I have to agree with ol' Codders on this one... all my mates, who regularly win these off-roadie events all over Europe use beam axle specials... don't ask me why.. something to do with axle articulation and the angle of the dangle.. or some'ut technical.... and if you want more clearance under the diff, just go the route of portals a la Unimogs...
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Old 13 December 2004, 14:53   #27
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C'mon, Portal axles are a whole different thing, as are Unimogs!

If I built another off roader, I love to do it with independent.

Probably wouldn't, coz it's so much more work, but would love to.

if said vehicle needs to go quick (over the bumps), it must be easier to build with less unsprung weight with indi, wouldn't you say?
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Old 13 December 2004, 15:28   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Fuller
C'mon, Portal axles are a whole different thing, as are Unimogs!

If I built another off roader, I love to do it with independent.

Probably wouldn't, coz it's so much more work, but would love to.

if said vehicle needs to go quick (over the bumps), it must be easier to build with less unsprung weight with indi, wouldn't you say?
Aah.. matey with the Shakespeare fast fisher/ Landy combo that I posted about some time ago built a 100" with portals. It was that good that LR borrowed it for a while to study it. For racing, you're took a whole different pot of Haddock.... but for slow speed dobbling about.. beam axles...Mmm...

My racer had RR axles and was reasonably competitive in comp safaris in its day.. in the hands of a talented driver.. not me, I'll add......but don't know much about the curent racers.. not since the days of the Simmonite girlies... ah.. happy days...
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Old 13 December 2004, 16:56   #29
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I had a go at comp safari once, but that was in a 2 wheel drive buggy type thing.

It was a space frame jobbie, with unequal length double wishbone suspension up front, and I think transporter rear torsion tube with a load of mods, tooned up1,8 golf GTI motor, through a moded transporter g-box.

No good at all for slow stuff, and the suspecsion felt quite hard, until that is, it was doing 50-60mph across the lumps, when it soaked it all up remarkably well.

It was originally built by one of the Cobra kit car companies I think.

I was very surprised how quick it went round the course, I double drove with the owner (Fraser Halsey) it wasn't that different to powerboat racing.
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Old 13 December 2004, 17:08   #30
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Mmm... drove a Chenworth thing once.. cool in a "beach buggie on steroids" kinda way.. but not much cop at the crawley roundy sort of off roading that I prefer.. horses for courses, really... same as these boat thingies, really
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