More lies

[Scary Des]

http://www.just-auto.com/news_detail...t=47765&dm=yes


£216 Million in fines so that is how Gordon has done it Des

[osprey__viper]

........The whole philosophy of speed cameras needs a complete review. I spend my working life driving this countrys roads and talk about an easy target. I agree with cameras if they are kept on legitamate blackspots. However the amount I see especially mobile units just takes the piss

I even got pulled the other night for forgeting to put me number plate on the trailer. Fair enough, it was wrong but I admitted my guilt fitted the plate explained it was the first time in my career it had happened, What did the plod do??? gave me a fixed penalty fine and then a lecture. Tosser.

Camera got me on the A1 at Berwick last year, keeping with the flow so joe public didnt have to over take and flash. 3 points and 60 notes. The limit for that road was 40mph for an hgv, I was doing 46!!!!!!!!!!! the car limit is 60. You work it out.

Anybody who drives is a prime target for gordon brown. Perhaps a little more effort on other crime matters would make this country better than the crap hole it currently is. No wonder im thinking of a life trucking in canada At least there government want me.

Rant over, feel much better now, thanks

Martin

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by osprey__viper

........I agree with cameras if they are kept on legitamate blackspots. ............

Not even sure if I agree with them my view is that good road design will solve accident black spots, in Germany they use cobble stones in village centres and find that this slows people down without fining them Des

[Matt]

I thought this thread was going to be about Manos.

I completely agree with a zero tolerance policy in specific areas, outside schoolds for example, but I also think that motorways and other arterial roads could have variable speed limits dependant on traffic volume and weather, with the upper limit significantly higher than now. But, you'll never get the 'safety campaigner/tree hugger' types to allow that, probably the same people who object to aircraft overflying their village, or wind turbines.

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by MadMat

I thought this thread was going to be about Manos.

Who No, I was referring to the fact that road deaths are increasing but still the Government claims that speed cameras work I suppose to a degree they do, but not as intended I wonder when some bright spark will come up with the idea of privatising them Des

[MarkWildey]

I going to stick my neck out here and say I agree with speed camera’s.

If you were a traffic cop I bet there are loads of stories about pulling bits of bodies out of car wrecks where speeding was the cause of the accident

At the end of the day if the speed limit is xx miles per hour and you are doing 5 or 10 miles faster you are in the wrong. Either you are within the speed limit or you are not. And you know the consequence of exceeding it, i.e. points and fine.

Compared to many I don’t do that many miles but I still clock up 30K+ per year and see bad driving all the time from cars, bikes and HGV’s

If you object to who gets the money then don’t speed, its not rocket science!

Cheers

Mark

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

I going to stick my neck out here

Stick away
I would agree with you if speed cameras worked, but they don’t road death numbers are increasing In Germany there are 43 million motorists and they kill about the same number of people as we do with only 26 million and they have unlimited speed on some roads
If you follow the government line that speed kills the Germans should have far more casualties. What kills is bad driving and poor roads. Speed has been picked on because it is an easy target to measure and makes the government look like they are doing something In reality if driver training was increased and roads were improved deaths on our roads would go down but this will cost money and Gordon wouldn’t like that Des

[codprawn]

In Port Talbot on the M4 they put up 2 fixed speed cameras - they have caused congestion that just was NOT there before - they have also caused numerous accidents in an area that was trouble free.

Anyone who says "don't speed" is either a liar or a hypocrite.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

Stick away
I would agree with you if speed cameras worked, but they don’t road death numbers are increasing In Germany there are 43 million motorists and they kill about the same number of people as we do with only 26 million and they have unlimited speed on some roads
If you follow the government line that speed kills the Germans should have far more casualties. What kills is bad driving and poor roads. Speed has been picked on because it is an easy target to measure and makes the government look like they are doing something In reality if driver training was increased and roads were improved deaths on our roads would go down but this will cost money and Gordon wouldn’t like that Des

By the way Des - totally agree and very well put!!!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by MadMat

....campaigner/tree hugger' types to allow that, probably the same people who object to aircraft overflying their village, or wind turbines.

That's a bit presumtuous, Mr Yorke.

[Matt]

Yep.

[Hightower]

I agree that speeding should be an anti-social pass time, but I've still seen numerous people using mobile phones "the old fashioned way" one even just missed me and she clearly didn't see me!! As for eating apples!! And even for picking ones nose!! I even got shouted at the other day by a passer by, because I was resting my hand on the side of my face whilst waiting at a roundabout .

Look it's clear to me as it is for any person that there is big money in collecting roadside fines and with governments ever reducing Police budgets the police are resorting to "Dirty Tricks" in trying to make as much revenue as possible, like many a dodgy bussiness would do if they could get away with it. It's all about money not safety!

Right the constructive part.

There are many proven, passive ways to reduce speeding and some that also reduce traffic congestion and these range from cobbled streets in urban areas, to traffic lights that sense when some one is speeding and switches to red and informs the driver Via a big sign that he is responsible for holding up everybody behind him. These Idea's and others are very eco-friendly as you arrive at your destination quicker and safer and don't cost as much as some of the alternatives. Problem with this though is it doesn't make money for the authorities

[Phil Davies]

Originally Posted by Scary Des

In Germany there are 43 million motorists and they kill about the same number of people as we do with only 26 million and they have unlimited speed on some roads

Slight correction, Des, but they actually kill TWICE the number of people on their roads as we do! Note also that after reunification in 1990 the road death rate quadrupled in two years due entirely to young East Germans switching from 2-stroke, slug-like Trabants to high powered Western built cars. Having said that, their death rate has declined relative to ours in recent years.

Much of the Fatherland's autobahn system is unrestricted, even on the two lane sections, but then outside the Ruhr region and a couple of other notable exceptions the traffic density is far less than in the UK. Their driver training is a lot better than ours, too, and motorway driving forms part of their driving test and it should be part of ours, too. Germans are way more disciplined on the roads than Brits and their lane discipline on motorways is superb - but then it needs to be with Audi, Merc and Beemer bahnstormers closing at 250k's Mind you, when they do have a crash it tends to resemble an air disaster.

Speed doesn't kill - inappropriate use of speed does. And that of course is one of the main criticisms of speed cameras - unlike the odd reasonable traffic Plod they don't discriminate.

[MarkWildey]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Anyone who says "don't speed" is either a liar or a hypocrite.

"Don't Speed"

Now do you disagree with the adverts that compare the injury difference between 30mph and 35 or is it 40mph?

Back in the late 80's drinking and driving was considered one of those things, whereas now it is seen as a serious crime. To my mind speeding should go down the same road.

Especially in a 30 zone , where typically your trip is less than ten miles, the advantage in time by doing 35 is small, whereas the increase in injury is much higher.

Mark

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

"Don't Speed"

Now do you disagree with the adverts that compare the injury difference between 30mph and 35 or is it 40mph?

Back in the late 80's drinking and driving was considered one of those things, whereas now it is seen as a serious crime. To my mind speeding should go down the same road.

Especially in a 30 zone , where typically your trip is less than ten miles, the advantage in time by doing 35 is small, whereas the increase in injury is much higher.

Mark

Does this mean that you NEVER speed??? Truthfully??? In my experience the people who claim this tend to drive everywhere at 40mph - through towns - built up areas - motorways etc etc - irrespective of conditions.

In some places through towns etc even 20mph can be too fast - in others 100mph CAN be safe - depends on so many things.

Also what about the many roads that have had the speed limits reduced so they can put up speed cameras? There are loads of dual carrigeways around here that have gone from 70mph to 50 or even 40mph - how can it be ok to do 70mph on them one day then 40 the next???

[Jackwabbit]

DON’T GET ME STARTED!
This is a subject close to every road users heart one way of another!

I have used the same stretch of road daily for the last 26 years; & it used to have a national speed limit & never saw an accident even though at 70MPH I was passed sometimes as if I was standing still.
A few years a go they reduced the speed to 50MPH and popped in half a dozen cameras in each direction just to make this road safe!
HA!
There is now not a single week go by without an accident on this road, every day I see the same problem, people are concentrating on their Speedo’s as the approach a camera rather than looking at what is going on in front of them. Traffic is flowing at 45MPH everyone is checking & double-checking their speed, when NOB-HEAD at the front on his mobile notices the markings in the road.
WHAT’S THE FIRST THING HO DOES?
He hits the breaks because he doesn’t want to collect a few more points, then he looks at his speedo.
Meanwhile behind him everyone is still concentrating more on their speedo rather than what’s going on around them. Next thing they know is they are about to hit the back of the car in front & by time you get a dozen cars back they have come to a complete standstill or worse still someone has run into the back of another.
WITHOUT A DOUBT these safety cameras (as they like to be known as now) have SIGNIFICANTLY increased the number of accidents on this road, OK the drivers are following each other too close but cameras can’t spot this bad driving practice, or the chav in his XR-GO-FASTER weaving in & out of the traffic them slamming on his breaks just before the speed cameras.
What is needed is more police on the road to warn people of bad driving practices & to get the dangerous drivers off the road.

RANT OVER
And before you ask, no I haven’t been caught by these cameras YET

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Phil Davies

Slight correction, Des, but they actually kill TWICE the number of people on their roads ..............

If that is the case I stand corrected but the stats I had showed a 3.5 to 5k average deaths over 5 years in Germany compared to 3.5K here. It does depend on what you include in the stats and to a degree they can show almost anything Still although you have seen fit to correct me in essence you agree with what I am saying, speed doesn’t kill Des

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

Now do you disagree with the adverts that compare the injury difference between 30mph and 35 or is it 40mph?

Yes, figures were extrapolated and not proven. However what is proven is that 4X4s cause greater pedestrian injuries than conventional cars so why isn’t the government fining them because it would hit the car producers who have more clout than Joe public Incidentally I am not saying 4X4 should be banned, I am just saying the ad is misleading

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

Back in the late 80's drinking and driving was considered one of those things, whereas now it is seen as a serious crime. To my mind speeding should go down the same road.

And that is the point government are trying to demonise speed the same way they did drink driving, they were right with drink driving they are wrong with speed Des

[MarkWildey]

Cod'e

To a certain extent I'm taking the moral high ground with this, but to me, this subject is about the 1 in a million chance you might kill someone so the moral high ground is a good place to be.

I have once had points for speeding, and it was 5 in one go. If I was given points for every time I exceeded the speed limit then I wouldn't have a licence.

Most of my driving is on motorways and assuming that the traffic is light then like most other people I'm doing 80-85.

Around town I stick to the limits.

Also, and this will really make you laugh, I have a Road Angel III, not because I want to speed up to the camera's but if I lose my licence I lose my job. The RA III also has black spot and schools warnings which I find the most useful aspect of the unit given I drive all over the UK.

But all the people who moan about getting caught about speed camera’s only have themselves to blame. They know what the speed limit is and they choose to exceed it. No one forced them to go over the limit.

I was up in Park Royal on Tuesday and on a small stretch of the A406 there were about 10 cameras in what seemed about two miles. Personally I thought this was a bit over the top but as I wasn’t speeding it didn’t bother me.

Jackwabbit makes a good point that people speed up to the cameras and then slow down potentially causing an accident. You need to change the mentality of these people after all the camera doesn’t move and has a big yellow disc on it. A better solution would be the cameras that average the speed between two distances rather than at one point.

Scary Des “they are wrong with speed”

Cheers

Mark

[osprey__viper]

Originally Posted by MarkWildey

A better solution would be the cameras that average the speed between two distances rather than at one point.

Now you are havin a laugh!! The SPECS camera's are the worest of the bunch. I live in Nottinghamshire and we seem to have the bloody sole franchise for the damn things Try following Mr. Average at 40mph on our ring road thats equipped with specs. He spends more time looking at his speedo than he does looking where he's going Now you tell me how they would be better??????

In my opinion its down to education. Why have we got two types of driving standards??? The L plate test and the advanced test. Why not teach everyone to the advanced standard??? Having done both I know which I would rather have. Educating people and making them more aware of there speed and surroundings has got to be better. But no the government just like to hold the cash bag out for us to fill.

Education is the key, not cobbled streets (cos if ya a biker they can be lethal in the wet) speed humps, cameras etc. Just plain old education. Perhaps the money the government takes in fines should be put to this????? Like thats gonna happen

Martin