MAIB report into fatal collision St.Mawes

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Jimbob

..... Stopping people drink on boats - no evidence but maybe a pro-active move.......

OK taking your argument forwards, what other proactive laws should be passed
It is a fact that most children are murdered by a member of their family, should all children be taken away at birth to prevent this Obviously the answer is no, because although a few will die most will have a normal childhood.
Applying the same to drink-boating, a few will wrap their boat and family around the nearest rock but most will enjoy their sport without unnecessary restriction
Incidentally if you have an accident while drunk in charge of a boat you can be done so all new laws will do is punish you because you might have an accident Des

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by roycruse

....As to the question do we need laws to prevent the worst happening - its like everything - a few irresponsible people need to be controlled so everyone has to suffer an inconvenient law.....

Although I accept this is the current approach I'm not sure it is right, why should the majority suffer for the minority Des

[Jimbob]

Scary Des, yes its an interesting one and as you say where do you stop.

Drinking would have impaired the thinking process and i think this is the first time on Ribnet this has been a topic for me, usually its kill-cord, life jackets +others

right i think i'm off to the pub in a bit

[Shaggy]

Interesting debate...

I wonder what the penalties would be if you are caught in charge of a vessel whilst under the influence of alcohol?

But what happens if you anchor up for the night, have a few G&T's during which the weather turns nasty and you have to move the boat to a safer haven?

Shaggy

[Scary Des]

Originally Posted by Shaggy

Interesting debate...

I wonder what the penalties would be if you are caught in charge of a vessel whilst under the influence of alcohol?....

Currently nothing specific for leisure users but I think that if you had accident, provided you were within coastal waters, they could do you using an existing non marine specific law. Des

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by roycruse

If im out at night I not only have full nav lights but a bloody 1 million candle power spot lamp looking where im going - no one is going to miss me comming.

How the fek is anyone going to be able to see after taking a blast of such a light in the dark. Equally irresponsible. Just abide by the rules.

[Jimbob]

jwalker - use the force

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by jwalker

How the fek is anyone going to be able to see after taking a blast of such a light in the dark. Equally irresponsible. Just abide by the rules.

Are you telling me having a spot light on my boat is irresponsible. I'm afraid we will have to disagree on that one - I think you are talking out of your arse. One million candle power is a standard 55W headlight bulb and you get 2 of those shining right at you every time a car drives past you at night - your eyes take about a second to re-adjust after a car has gone by. What are you talking about, irresponsible ??????????

There are many things in the water that are not lit at all especially in carrick roads where I do a lot of my boating. Unlit cardinal poles, huge mooring drums that they use to attach ocean liners to when they are laid up here, etc etc. not to mention the fishing and other boats. A spot light is an essential bit of kit to night boating in my book.

[pressman]

You could go a couple of hours with an inky dark night, then somebody shines a light straight at you, and you are fekd for a few minutes. Thats the difference being on the water and in a car!!

[roycruse]

I understand your point - I think a few minutes is a bit of an exageration but - if you are suggesting I give up the light - how do you suggest I find unlit obstacles on an "inky dark night" without it?

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by roycruse

..One million candle power is a standard 55W headlight bulb and you get 2 of those shining right at you every time a car drives past you at night - your eyes take about a second to re-adjust after a car has gone by. What are you talking about, irresponsible ??????????

Not when I'm driving. I dip my headlamps. But it's a nonsense comparison since each car has it's own head lamps so the driver's eyes do not have to re-adapt to darkness.

Here's a suggestion for you. Next time a car comes toward you at night, switch off your head lamps and then see what you can see after it passes.

[pressman]

You dont give up the light, but you need to be carefull as to what you point it at.

Keep it low and be carefull not to point it directly in the eyes of any on coming craft.

I have seen several boats out at night, not sure of where they are, pointing their search lights directly into the wheelhouse/bridge of oncoming vessels, had it done to me on several occasions.

When you are navigating the Solent and Southampton Water this is the last thing you need, you cannot see the radar properly for at least 5 mins.

[roycruse]

Originally Posted by jwalker

Not when I'm driving. I dip my headlamps. But it's a nonsense comparison since each car has it's own head lamps so the driver's eyes do not have to re-adapt to darkness.

Here's a suggestion for you. Next time a car comes toward you at night, switch off your head lamps and then see what you can see after it passes.

also a nonsense comparison as you are talking about a set of lights that have been shining at you for several seconds - not a spot light that simply crossed your gaze in a tiny fraction of a second as im scanning for obstacles. I hardly go round shining it in peoples eyes deliberately.

What are your suggestions for finding unlit objects at night without a searchlight.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by roycruse

What are your suggestions for finding unlit objects at night without a searchlight.

Exactly as pressman said.

Your original post suggested you were going to use your lamp fulltime.

If im out at night I not only have full nav lights but a bloody 1 million candle power spot lamp looking where im going - no one is going to miss me comming.

Perhaps I misunderstood but it didn't read to me as though you were just trying to locate an unlit marker.

Dipped headlamps are designed not to shine a beam directly into oncoming drivers' eyes.

[Shaggy]

I think cruising in the Solent and off the West Cornwall coastline are two worlds apart, but I am sure sure its the same in Scotland a JW


When I did my Advanced power boat with Paul Glatzel in Pool were we tasked with finding an unlit marker using only the chart and compass..

I took the helm first and was very happy cruising at around 5 -7 knots straining my eyes to keep a look out for Pot Dans, footballs, floating containers and the like..

After about 45 min’s I reached the area where we thought the marker was, after a short scan using a searchlight we spotted it roughly where we though it would be..

Then another student who lived in the area took the helm and I tried to navigate us to the next unlit marker…

I was totally horrified when we took off at about 12-15 knots in the direction we needed, ok there wasn’t any marked bouyage on the passage etc but bloody hell what about the pots etc.

Well we found the next marker in no time and headed back in, the next day we did some search patterns etc. in the day light around the area we did the night time exercise, and there wasn’t a half inflated football stuck on the end of some garden bamboo with trailing rope in sight, or any other Jims Cash and Carry containers that might act as a Dan.


The main inshore fishing industry in Cornwall is for Spider Crabs and Lobsters, as a result there are hundreds of pot dans, rope and all manner of unlit markers all around the coastline here..

If you are out on an inky night navigating back to shore with no means of illuminating your course, you will run over a dan and you will get that rope around the prop.

Obviously this isn’t the case if your further off shore, I guess the moral of the story is that in busy shipping area such as the Solent you can be that student and take off at 12-15 knots in the safe knowledge that if it aint on the chart its not there, if you are in Hayle and outside shipping channels in West Cornwall you will have someone on the bow with a torch shouting “look out!!!”.

I would agree with the use of a spot light to navigate in or out of a minor port, I would be surprised if Roy’s spot light is not training on the water 15mtr or so in front of the RIB.

But once out at sea and in deeper water I would turn it off, how else would we see that lovely phosphorescence 

Shaggy

Some Pots etc.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by roycruse

also a nonsense comparison as you are talking about a set of lights that have been shining at you for several seconds - not a spot light that simply crossed your gaze in a tiny fraction of a second as im scanning for obstacles. I hardly go round shining it in peoples eyes deliberately.

What are your suggestions for finding unlit objects at night without a searchlight.

These!!!

[roycruse]

You might be comfortable wearing that out on your battleship sized RIB but on my little 5.85 I usually just wear shorts, t-shirt and flip flops.

[Rogue Wave]

Originally Posted by roycruse

but on my little 5.85 I usually just wear shorts, t-shirt and flip flops.

I did that last weekend.......fkkk me was it cold!

[Jimbob]

We have a spot light to find things, we use it at night to find until bouys e.t.c

It think in the rules (rules 36) it does state that you should avoid attracking attention by shining a light in the wheel house and thus "blinding" them. So i would presume this is a general comment with regards spot lights.

[Alice]

I know this stretch of water well, the big mistake was to "cut" the corner on the castle side. Lights and alcohol aside, if they'd come out of the middle of the Percuil and then lined up for Falmouth the chances of a collision would have been miniscule. Cutting the corner under the castle was effectively driving around a blind bend. Also, at night there is a huge amount of ambient light given off over Falmouth and the Docks so spotting anything unlit and small in the water is very difficult. There was another similar situation in the same stretch of water a couple of weeks later, fortunately the outcome was not fatal.