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Old 18 September 2008, 04:27   #61
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Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler View Post
It was ok, I found your boat (little ship) but didn't speak to the salesman as he was constantly talking to interested punters.. Went to it 3 times, but each time he was deeply ingrossed in showing off the boat and generally being a good salesman. On 1 visit I watched him take down the potential customers details!

Cheers, Big Ears! For info like that, I waive my claim on the Jaffas...

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Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler View Post
Had to duck and dive a bit to make sure none of my pals saw me looking at it!!!
It's an age thing... give it a couple of years and you'll be back.
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Old 18 September 2008, 08:04   #62
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So why bother with the killing part then?
Jono, I understand your point completely. I am not a hunter and have no interest in hunting. I am too spineless to actually kill my dinner. When I do eat it, I prefer the meat that's born in little Styrofoam packages, neatly wrapped in cellophane.

Don't you see the hypocrisy of your opinion though? You eat meat, but seem to justify the slaughter of an animal as long as it is done out of sight. You mention PETA... their site is filled with information about horrendous conditions in slaughterhouses... animals that are scalded to death, kicked to death, bled to death. If you believe that animals are lulled to sleep listening to Barry Manilow before they are quietly euthanized, you are very wrong.

I support Peta not because I am especially against eating meat, but because I am against cruelty to animals, and strongly opposed to the wearing of fur. Peta long-ago recognized that they aren't going to convert everyone into vegetarians. They have done great work in terms of improving conditions for animals that are going to be slaughtered. I don't doubt that they have a brochure denouncing hunting. I agree that it is unnecessary and cruel... after all, hunting kills an otherwise healthy animal for an unnecessary reason. That can be said about the killing of an animal for food under any circumstances... hunting, or farmed... both are cruel and both are unnecessary.

Does anyone really think that in the long-term, humans will continue to eat meat? The resources required to raise cattle will be completely unsustainable within decades. Already, massive tracts of rain-forest are being burned to create grazing land to raise cattle to feed North Americans and Europeans. It can't and won't continue forever... it just isn't possible.

And you are absolutely correct about our natural predators... But how using a professional hunter versus a hunt undertaken by amateurs escapes me. As I said in my initial post, a hunt performed by competent amateurs, where an animal is dispatched cleanly is no different. Whether the hunter is killing "efficiently and coldly" or "enjoys" the kill is, I suspect, completely irrelevant to the animal! Regarding PTs flubbed shot, I think if the truth be known, he's a big softy and intentionally missed the shot!

Clearly there are cultural differences at play here. Over hear, we have deer and moose galour... In Newfoundland, I think the moose outnumber the people! But to me, a guy who tracks, kills, field dresses, and schleps his dinner out of the bush can hardly be criticized as being barbaric when compared to a guy who prefers his pork chop come from an animal that has been raised in cramped, stressful conditions for months or years, then forced onto a truck with the help of an electric prod, then forced into a factory where it can hear it's "mates" being killed, before it is (hopefully) stunned into unconsciousness before having a steel hook jambed into its thigh, hoisted into the air and having its throat slit. Of course if the initial stunning isn't complete (and studies have demonstrated that this is the case in a fairly large percentage) this all happens to an animal that is still very much alive and mostly alert.

Just because your meat comes from a grocery store doesn't mean that that animal gave it's life up willingly, or easily!
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Old 18 September 2008, 08:38   #63
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Britain's legendary hunters, guns

I won't comment much here mainly due to the fact that it would take forever to lightly touch on the famous hunters (and gun makers) from Great Britain. The extreme skill exhibited in British gunmaking of sporting arms and the exploits afield of her hunters belies a great passion, has that totally disappeared? Cod, this is usually where you chime in... Waiting...
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Old 18 September 2008, 09:13   #64
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You don't have to be "anti gun" "anti bow" or even "anti killing" to be anti sport hunting...or haven't you been reading the post clearly? Missed an animal the size of a cow from 28 yards I believe. What would have happened if he just wounded the Moose? If you botch the shot as badly as that you have no right to take it. At least with the right tools you can get a second shot off real quick if you injure but don't drop your prey. Boys playing with bows and arrows... Hell even in our little Country if you can't put two killing shots in at ranges from 40 - 100 metres you don't get a ticket to "play".
The arrow grazed the moose's hair directly under his heart. 2" higher would have been a heart shot. anything directly above that for another 18" would have been a double lung shot. anything below where my arrow landed would still have been a complete miss. The arrow would have still held the same vertical alignment at much further or closer ranges. It is easy to keep the left/right variation of an arrow's flight very minimal with traditional archery gear. The arrow height is more tricky since range estimation is critical. Nonetheless, the shot was completely ethical.
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Old 18 September 2008, 09:21   #65
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I am all in favour of 'animal welfare', but am opposed to the concept of 'animal rights'. Certain large scale animal farming practices are abhorrent, and do need to be changed, but I think PETA has the tendency to misrepresent and use such over the top tactics that their credibility is unrepairably damaged. There are animal welfare organizations that have much more credibility in the eyes of the general public.
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Old 18 September 2008, 09:24   #66
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I won't comment much here mainly due to the fact that it would take forever to lightly touch on the famous hunters (and gun makers) from Great Britain. The extreme skill exhibited in British gunmaking of sporting arms and the exploits afield of her hunters belies a great passion, has that totally disappeared? Cod, this is usually where you chime in... Waiting...

Indeed. One of my previous neighbors owns a Wesley Richards side by side 12 guage that he had lent to me on a couple of occasions. What an amazingly well made, well balanced piece that was.
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Old 18 September 2008, 11:12   #67
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Like PTs trip, most of these guys will spend a week or more in the bush and kill nothing more than a few quarts of rye! (And still have an entirely enjoyable time...)
Not that they'll remember it...


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Old 18 September 2008, 13:11   #68
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Not that they'll remember it...


jky
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Old 18 September 2008, 15:08   #69
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Not that they'll remember it...
Kinda like the moose won't remember PTs shot! Much like the guy that 'almost' took me out on the highway once apon a time.. The moose will benefit in the long term. Now when it sees a scruffy looking dude approaching in a little rubber boat, it'll run like hell!

Tuber, Peta is pretty over the top, no argument. I think that they have moderated their approach in recent years, which is when I joined. I still enjoy a steak once in a while, but only ones that come from Steer Spas, where the little beasties die of old age whilst being cuddled by a much younger, and very friendly, little heffer!
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