grow your own fuel - Page 2

Neil Harvey · 27 June 2007, 22:59

using WVO to either make bio, or having another tank to switch at start and end of journey is the best option, as it's recycling already used oil, hence having no additional negative environmental impacts etc etc.

but, for those short on time and space (me as I am always abroad in the week), it's not an option, althought the filtering WVO might be if that's all that is required, but I recall it has to be cleaned as well, requiring chemicals, in which case might as well go the whole hog and produce biodiesel.

I'm sure the best ROI is going down the biodiesel production route, especially if you club together with a couple of mates and buy that 2k piece of equipment. Only have a normal tank, no switching etc.costs recouped in 6 months or so depending on mileage, feel good factor and low cost fuel for ages to come (unless they abandon fuel tax and tax per mile of driving instead, but that's another story).

Oogs · 27 June 2007, 23:13

Go to the pub & get your 20l drum of used oil...
put it through a teram or paper filter...
Heat the oil to 55c...
Perform your Titration test to determine the acidity of the oil...
Lets say you have 10l of filtered veg oil warming up....
You need 20% methanol (2l) & 3.5grams caustic soda per litre + your test result, say 1g per litre...
Therefore for 10l oil mix the 2l methanol & 4.5g Caustic together....
This becomes "methoxide" sounds good eh! ....
Put your methoxide into the oil and mix it throughly....
Leave in your conical vessel (Reactor) overnight....
in the morning open the drain at the bottom of the reactor & drain out the thick clycerin....
what's left is Bio! Just needs washing.....
Mix with loads of water, say 20l, allow water to seperate & drain off from the bottom....
Repeat wash as desired.. untill water is clear....
Now what is left is "Methyl Esters" or Bio Diesel!!!

frothy top · 27 June 2007, 23:26

ok now im just totaly confused, i think il wait a) as i dont have a diesel inboard to use it in yet b) I cant drive and c) it took me a year to get 3k and im not doing that again it hurt alot not being able to buy anything for nearly a year

and maybe il strike oil in my garden you never know

Nos4r2 · 27 June 2007, 23:27

How much is methanol?

Oogs · 27 June 2007, 23:31

Obviously the example given is not quite how I do it... I use the molecular sieve "Amberlite" beads system not water & 10l is for ease understanding...
God only knows how much fuel I've produced in the last 12 months, it's measured in drums of Methanol

9000l.
It is practicable for you to buy an "off the peg" reactor for around £700 which will produce 40l of fuel easily. You could put it in the corner of the garage & spend 2 hours in total to make the fuel.... YES why aren't more people doing it!

frothy top · 27 June 2007, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oogs

Obviously the example given is not quite how I do it... I use the molecular sieve "Amberlite" beads system not water & 10l is for ease understanding...
God only knows how much fuel I've produced in the last 12 months, it's measured in drums of Methanol

9000l.
It is practicable for you to buy an "off the peg" reactor for around £700 which will produce 40l of fuel easily. You could put it in the corner of the garage & spend 2 hours in total to make the fuel.... YES why aren't more people doing it!

Because its very confusing

Oogs · 27 June 2007, 23:36

The price of Methanol fluctuates between £60 to £90 for a 205l drum....
we bought 2 drums a fortnight ago at £78 each.
The cost of setting up the plant depends on how resorseful you are...
you could make a small system for £50 or spend a few grand making a system that could process 400l per day!

Oogs · 27 June 2007, 23:41

Hi Frothy, yep there's so much on tinternet & everyone knows someone who's having a go.... I think I'll put some details on here & photo's etc so you can all decide for yourselves. Not tonight... must get some kip & 1 last lge port

Nos4r2 · 27 June 2007, 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oogs

The price of Methanol fluctuates between £60 to £90 for a 205l drum....
we bought 2 drums a fortnight ago at £78 each.
The cost of setting up the plant depends on how resorseful you are...
you could make a small system for £50

That's pretty much what I was thinking of-knocking something up out of a couple of 10 gallon drums.
The only time I use the car for any distance is towing the rib and then it costs nearly as much as the fuel for the boat-but Sixy does 25k a year in hers just commuting.

codprawn · 28 June 2007, 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oogs

The price of Methanol fluctuates between £60 to £90 for a 205l drum....
we bought 2 drums a fortnight ago at £78 each.
The cost of setting up the plant depends on how resorseful you are...
you could make a small system for £50 or spend a few grand making a system that could process 400l per day!

As I said the main problem is getting the waste oil. I was very interested in doing this and researched it to the nth degree - even down to using ofm and ultrasonics.

Maybe it's different in your area but most people I approached are already selling oil to a waste oil collector. apparently these people are similar to scarp metal dealers and can make life quite unpleasant for people moving onto "their" patch.

About the only readily available supplies I could find are from local chippies but they all use the solid block stuff - have you tried this and does it cause many extra probs???

DGR · 28 June 2007, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

About the only readily available supplies I could find are from local chippies but they all use the solid block stuff - have you tried this and does it cause many extra probs???

I believe that it doesn't make any difference, you just get more glycerin out of it when it does its thing in the reaction chamber.

I also believe that some people bottle the glycerin, add a little bit of smelly stuff, and sell it as liquid soap. That might not work if you are using stuff from your local chippy...

...!!

D...

EDIT: Just noticed - if you can convert it for 11p per litre, there is an economic argument (but not an environmental one) to go and buy veggie oil from the supermarket at 47p a litre and convert it. Still cheaper than the pump - but more expensive than red......at the moment...

codprawn · 28 June 2007, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

I believe that it doesn't make any difference, you just get more glycerin out of it when it does its thing in the reaction chamber.

I also believe that some people bottle the glycerin, add a little bit of smelly stuff, and sell it as liquid soap. That might not work if you are using stuff from your local chippy...

...!!

D...

EDIT: Just noticed - if you can convert it for 11p per litre, there is an economic argument (but not an environmental one) to go and buy veggie oil from the supermarket at 47p a litre and convert it. Still cheaper than the pump - but more expensive than red......at the moment...

47p per litre - ha ha! It's now up to 58p and climbing. I had a quote for 30,000L of the stuff and they couldn't beat the supermarket price!!! The demand is increasing fast - same with bioethanol in the USA - the price of corn products is going up so fast many people in poorer countries can no longer afford to eat - so that we can chuck the stuff in our tanks......

DGR · 28 June 2007, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

47p per litre - ha ha! It's now up to 58p and climbing....

Well, in my defence, it's been a while since I was looking at it......

D...

codprawn · 28 June 2007, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGR

Well, in my defence, it's been a while since I was looking at it......

D...

Not long ago it was £1.20 for a 3l bottle in Tesco - now it's up on £1.78 and climbing - I have also noticed the oil now looks cloudy so the quality is going down as well.

tinker · 28 June 2007, 20:26

I know of a few mates of mates who mix straight veg oil with normal diesel and have being running there vw tdi's like this for a few years, old merc diesels can,rumour has it, run on pure veg oil.

Wanna see costco round my way with the

taxi drivers and 1000L of veg oil out of control

well worth £25.

Google, yet again, is the answer, forums as detailed as this one exist although OGS seems to know the score though, just beware of the tax man

w

Oogs · 28 June 2007, 21:26

Getting the waste oil certainly is no prblem up here, most small pubs are happy to give it to you as many pour the stuff down the drain!!
There is certainly an increase in oil reclamation, many companies selling the 20l catering drums will insist on recovering the waste.... Take alook round the back of most pubs & you'll see an abundance of the stuff... liquid gold!
I've not tried using the solid oil from chip shops yet as it is too labour intensive for me, you'ld have to heat it to filter it in the first instance.
I have tried to react fresh clean SVO & the result was not as good as using WVO to make Bio.
The waste product Glycerin can be used to make soap as well as having enormous energy itself. A chap I know mixes his glycerin with sawdust & makes brickettes to burn in his wood burner... apparently they burn really hot & produce very little smoke! You can buy a boiler that runs on glycerin also!

Oogs · 28 June 2007, 21:32

Different subject I know... but must tell all.
We also have a 6.2m Temptress & have put a Suzu DT 140 on her...
All faults have been ironed out & ran at 40mph on the river Avon at Stratford

should have seen peoples faces... 5 mph limit.
Will take her home to Calshot on Sun & blast up to Yarmouth for lunch

codprawn · 28 June 2007, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oogs

Different subject I know... but must tell all.
We also have a 6.2m Temptress & have put a Suzu DT 140 on her...
All faults have been ironed out & ran at 40mph on the river Avon at Stratford

should have seen peoples faces... 5 mph limit.
Will take her home to Calshot on Sun & blast up to Yarmouth for lunch

Class engines!!!

codprawn · 29 June 2007, 12:22

Please do NOT buy biofuel unless you KNOW it has come from waste cooking oil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6252594.stm

Sadly we won't have much choice with the EU forcing it on us!!!

DGR · 29 June 2007, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Please do NOT buy biofuel unless you KNOW it has come from waste cooking oil.

Makes sense, with SVO getting so expensive, there isn't an argument for not using WVO any more, financial or otherwise.

SVO requires acres and acres of ground, and isn't environmentally friendly, where WVO is 100% recycled oil, any additional env. issues coming from the conversion process. Anyone know what the green credentials of that bit of it is?

D...