Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 22 September 2015, 15:00   #11
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: bedford
Make: tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: outboard 60hp merc
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 210
Good job my smoke generating old Merc OB wasn't made by VW. That probably generates more smoke in a good day out than a VW does in a lifetime!

What a shame, great cars.

Dave j
__________________

__________________
davej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2015, 15:36   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by davej View Post
What a shame, great cars.
Still are. My whole blimmin' family drive 'em. Apart from me, I'm such a rebel.
__________________

__________________
Mollers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2015, 17:37   #13
Member
 
spartacus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Sula
Make: Ribcraft 4.8m
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 60hp + aux
MMSI: 235087213
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,268
RIBase
There are a couple of posts on the NYTimes about the number of people that are likely to be involved in this industrial fraud, and it simply can't be a handful of software engineers. Let's just say if Volkswagen was hooked up to an ECG machine it should be flatlining.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	66.9 KB
ID:	108843  
__________________
Is that with or without VAT?
spartacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2015, 18:52   #14
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by spartacus View Post
There are a couple of posts on the NYTimes about the number of people that are likely to be involved in this industrial fraud, and it simply can't be a handful of software engineers. Let's just say if Volkswagen was hooked up to an ECG machine it should be flatlining.
Really? The consumer doesn't actually care about emissions, they might care a bit about fuel economy but don't believe manufacturers figures anyway. Is it the manufacturer who has manipulated his engine to the extreme to achieve the required standard or the test/standard developer who is at fault for producing an artificial test that is easy to scam? It's difficult to believe that nobody in the standards world was not aware of the risk people were optimising engines for the official test rather than real performance. VW just took it one step further.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2015, 19:35   #15
Member
 
1eyedjim's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Birmingham
Boat name: Sparrowhawk
Make: Osprey
Length: 5m +
Engine: Yamaha 90hp 2T
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 215
I like my golf gtd and this don't change a thing.

My only worry is if it has a knock on to the company car tax costs

If prices are dropping tho I may have to go on the look for a t5
__________________
1eyedjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2015, 01:56   #16
Member
 
Anchorhandler's Avatar
 
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
Made me chuckle...

Simon
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FB_IMG_1442987657086.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	40.3 KB
ID:	108845  
__________________
C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
Anchorhandler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2015, 02:46   #17
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 3m +
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Really? The consumer doesn't actually care about emissions, they might care a bit about fuel economy but don't believe manufacturers figures anyway. Is it the manufacturer who has manipulated his engine to the extreme to achieve the required standard or the test/standard developer who is at fault for producing an artificial test that is easy to scam? It's difficult to believe that nobody in the standards world was not aware of the risk people were optimising engines for the official test rather than real performance. VW just took it one step further.
There is a little bit of a difference from saying at 1500* revs the emissions need to be spot on to pass a test but at 1450 and 1550 they would fail, but the test asks for 1500 exactly so we will tweak the engine design to pass. We all know they have almost all done that. (Although when I bought my Ssangyong they specifically said they had not tried to create an engine to pass emmissions tests at the loss of power - so perhaps not everyone has). While that means the test is meaningless it does mean if I could drive everywhere at 1500 revs I would be getting those emissions.

However, what VW have done is identified that the test is happening through some sensors. Apparently if you believe the tinternet in the past people have done things like have a bonnet open sensor that activates more efficient emissions at a loss of power or loss of engine protection as the test is only for a few minutes, or sensing that the drive wheels are turning but not the others so it must be on a rolling road and modifying exhaust use. These aren't conditions that can ever be replicated on the road. That is DISHONEST rather than working to manipulate the standard.

*my made up standard
__________________
ShinyShoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2015, 02:53   #18
Member
 
spartacus's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Sula
Make: Ribcraft 4.8m
Length: 4m +
Engine: Tohatsu 60hp + aux
MMSI: 235087213
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,268
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poly View Post
Really? The consumer doesn't actually care about emissions, they might care a bit about fuel economy but don't believe manufacturers figures anyway. Is it the manufacturer who has manipulated his engine to the extreme to achieve the required standard or the test/standard developer who is at fault for producing an artificial test that is easy to scam? It's difficult to believe that nobody in the standards world was not aware of the risk people were optimising engines for the official test rather than real performance. VW just took it one step further.
The EPA rules state-side as I understand them are 8 times stricter than equivalent EU emissions tests. Volkswagen wanted to sell their 'clean' diesel TDI technology to US consumers interested in saving money by improving economy over traditional gasoline or hybrid cars. The trouble with diesel is you pay a premium for the car, and the saving comes a number of years down the line depending on overall mileage.

Volkswagen could give customers cars that had great economy, performance and engine durability, but not all the same time, and because they couldn't stay within strict EPA emissions, they installed the code. The TDI engines could achieve the emissions test, but it compromised durability, performance, and economy, as the engines had to run hotter.

The worrying thing is it took a clean air group and a team from West Virginia University to conduct their own tests to reveal this.

From 2017 the emissions and fuel efficiency figures for new cars will have to include real world driving, so expect the fuel efficiency to drop like a stone.
__________________
Is that with or without VAT?
spartacus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2015, 03:25   #19
Trade member
 
Dry Run's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: portsmouth
Boat name: Hullabaloo
Make: Humber
Length: 8m +
Engine: 225 Optimax
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 653
RIBase
Hi, I can hear the Treasury calculating an income opportunity

How long do we think before the letter drops through your door telling you that "you have been driving a vehicle with higher emmissions than your road tax allows - we have calculated your shortfall in road tax to be ...........?

Steve
__________________
You get what you settle for!
Dry Run is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2015, 03:37   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Run View Post
Hi, I can hear the Treasury calculating an income opportunity

How long do we think before the letter drops through your door telling you that "you have been driving a vehicle with higher emmissions than your road tax allows - we have calculated your shortfall in road tax to be ...........?

Steve
If that were the case, which it won't be, the 1000s VW then hit VW with a bill.

VW misled the US government and probably a heap of other governments.
There's the beef, not VW v owners.
__________________

__________________
Mollers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:26.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.