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Old 20 July 2006, 13:17   #11
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Sorry Jon but totally disagree.

The vast majority of drowning deaths are by non boating people - Richard B sums it up perfectly - make people wear lifejackets to pubs and clubs!!!

Why should I be forced to wear a life jacket if I don't want to? Same as a seat belt when I am driving - by not doing so the only person I will hurt is myself. Again with motorbikes and crash helmets.

What happens when someone decides we should all wear suits of armour lined with cotton wool? Would you be in favour of that as well???

Also what sort of boats should be covered? What about someone rowing back from a pub to their yacht in a little dinghy? Where do you draw the line???
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Old 20 July 2006, 13:40   #12
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Why should I be forced to wear a life jacket if I don't want to? Same as a seat belt when I am driving - by not doing so the only person I will hurt is myself. Again with motorbikes and crash helmets.
Because its the law..... You might not agree with it but unfortunatly our legal system deictates that you must. Most laws are there for our protection. I realise that you have to draw a line at some point otherwise you end up with a nanny state, but surly something that WOULD save lives has got to be a good idea. Not to mention the money, time and resources that go into a rescue/recovery of a dead body.
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Old 20 July 2006, 13:42   #13
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What about someone rowing back from a pub to their yacht in a little dinghy?
I fail to see your point there. Are you saying that people coming back from the pub in a dinghy are less at risk than someone else in a gin palace (or should that be orange juice palace)?
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Old 20 July 2006, 14:15   #14
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Same as a seat belt when I am driving - by not doing so the only person I will hurt is myself. Again with motorbikes and crash helmets.
Well not quite actually - you cost me (a taxpayer) an awful lot money by having a fatal road accident or seriously injuring yourself. The same applies to not wearing a life jacket.

The problem yachties would likely object to is not the rowing back from the pub after a pint or 6 (and I think they are more likely to fall out a small dinghy when pissed than a big boat) but can they anchor and drink half a bottle of wine? What if the wind changes and the anchor drags.
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Old 20 July 2006, 14:33   #15
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Well not quite actually - you cost me (a taxpayer) an awful lot money by having a fatal road accident or seriously injuring yourself. The same applies to not wearing a life jacket.

The problem yachties would likely object to is not the rowing back from the pub after a pint or 6 (and I think they are more likely to fall out a small dinghy when pissed than a big boat) but can they anchor and drink half a bottle of wine? What if the wind changes and the anchor drags.

So why not ban all dangerous sports? You could ban rock climbing - you could ban mountain biking - you could ban water skiing - after all nobody HAS to do these things do they? And when things go wrong it costs the taxpayer a fortune!!!
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Old 20 July 2006, 15:25   #16
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So why not ban all dangerous sports? You could ban rock climbing - you could ban mountain biking - you could ban water skiing - after all nobody HAS to do these things do they? And when things go wrong it costs the taxpayer a fortune!!!
Because you are looking at it from too narrow a perspective. All those sports contribute to the UK ecconomy (as does beer consumption which may be part of the reason its not been banned!) and so there is a benefit at local and national levels from these sports. Many areas already have restrictions on water skiing to contain it in safe areas (or more importantly out of dangerous ones). There are rules on bicycle use on the roads.

I'm not sure I would describe either water skiing or mountain biking as particularly dangerous sports (i'm not suggesting accidents don't happen - just that I don't think you picked great examples). The majority of people wear helmets when cycling on the roads so have self regulated much better than the boating community with life jackets. I think by and large serious mountain bikers always wear helmets where they believe there is risk.

Your rock climbing analogy is much better I think anyone who participates in outdoor rock climbing (including myself) and especially those who lead climbs would recognise that it is dangerous. Whilst people do get hurt and killed doing it I think that most mountain rescues will not be to experienced well equipped climbers - but rather to ill equipped walkers (the boating analogy may be not having/using life jackets). Interestingly there is a bit of a similar debate in the climbing community about helmets with the "why should I wear a helmet if I don't want to arguments" although there is no threat of legislation yet.

I don't climb (outdoors) with people who refuse to wear helmets and I won't sail with someone who would refuse to wear a life jacket on my boat.

I think the reasons for not bringing in legislation on life jackets are - when is it not necessary? Is there some size of boat where it is considered OK to work on the deck without a lifejacket?
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Old 20 July 2006, 15:28   #17
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Codprawn your post here cant really be taken seriously , anything to do with ,laws or Government, rules etc you have a problem with
In that respect already your opinion is biased.
If you dont wear a lifejacket, you have no place on a boat, dont just argue for the sake of it.
Maritime safety rules are there for a reason, respect Mr Blairs Governments wishes and abide by them, by falling in and not having a pfd, you cost me money
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Old 20 July 2006, 15:53   #18
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Always worn a seat belt, always worn a helmet when riding motorcycles: legislation didn't worry me because I always saw the absolute good sense in both. Likewise I've always worn a lifejacket when getting to and from boats and whilst on the water - applying those same rules to anyone on my boat.

There's a fine line between freedom of choice and being a prat.
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Old 20 July 2006, 16:00   #19
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The powers that be just can't leave things alone any more. Our local harbour have just put a barrier across a slipway - incase someone drives down it by mistake!!! Nobody has managed it in 60 years but they have to act!!!
Yeah but a fair proportion of the Welsh drivers (usually around Rhondda/Swansea area on the M4) don't seem to have figured out that you're not supposed to drive on the hard shoulder for 20 miles... Can you really blame them?


I do share your views on this fekkin nanny state though Codders. It's time we got rid of the self-satisfied overlegislative fatcat Red Tories.
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Old 20 July 2006, 16:06   #20
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Things seem to work pretty well on the non-tidal Thames and there are no major problems. In the Port of London the routinely breathalise skippers for erratic and stupid behaviour.

Each year a few people are caught out and pay about a grand fine. That their fault for being stupid. Driving a RIB at high speed is something nobody should do whilst tanked.

It is more to do with the attitude to alcohol in general rather than boating. Most 16-30 year olds are unable to drink in moderation and/or consider being paralytic a good way to spend an evening. That unfortunately is the real cause of the problem. If the idea of restricting sales of alchol is lifted and it is made illegal to serve somebody drunk is enforced then the problem will pretty much solve itself and have positive implications on the boating sector.

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