Disco for trailing

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by codprawn

WHAT???

Tyres make a major difference for a start. Traction control IS brilliant but then the Disco2 and new Defenders have them as well.

The Disco3 is a major advance ON the road and it performs exceptionally well offroad BUT why do you think the extreme rock crawlers STILL use beam axles? Yes the air suspension does act a bit like a beam but the articulation is still crap compared to something like an old Rangie.

As to ground clearance I am 6' tall with fairly long legs - I can get my knee under the sill of my 110 that is standard and on normal size tyres - can you do that on a Disco3???

One of the mags tested a Disco 2 and 3 on identical tyres - the Disco 2 came out better offroad overall.

I can only speak from personal experience!
Not what I may have read, have you taken one off road yet?

[Jeff Pike]

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

Jeff

What sort of budget are you on?
If money is no object then a D3 V8HSE is more comfortable than my sitting room. And cheaper at £45k +.

Mark,

Probably about £10-£15K. Did look at buying new & using it as my main car as well (also looked at the 3.0 V6 VW Toureg - awesome) but do I really want to put £45K worth of car on a slipway? Decided to go 2nd hand & get something which can double up as our 2nd car & tow the RIB. Seen a few on the net - should be able to get something worth having in that price range.

[CJL]

Have you had a good luck on ebay????

My mate has just picked up a very good Range Rover V8 4.0 litre with a LPG conversion for 750 quid!

Today he towed from East Anglia to West London at 65mph on gas and it cost him 20 quid each way. You can't beat that.

The car has got a few rust spots but nothing serious and its like sitting in a sofa! Very comfortable and reliable.

There really is no point spending a fortune on a tow vehicle unless you want it for a "weekday car" too!

[codprawn]

Bought mine through Ebay nut I would NEVER buy a car without a good test drive and checking it all over.

On Ebay you are bidding to buy - not test drive. As the seller said the car was mint and drove perfectly I told him straight providing it was exactly as described there wouln't be a problem - think that is fair enough!!!

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pike

Sounds like a late Series 2 TD5 auto with a high spec might do the job.

OK now we've narrowed it down a bit.... things to ask/check include:

Ask whether anything has been done re the engine oil pump. It is a chain driven pump and there is an issue on some engines with the bolt that holds the gear on, coming loose, oil pump stops, so does engine shortly afterwards, V V V F expensive. I have never seen one that has failed so it is not something to be paranoid about, but apparently they do so if you find one that has been checked out, so much the better.

Check the auto gearbox works in all gear selection positions, the switch pack on the side of the gearbox sometimes fails and causes problems with "Sport/Manual" lights coming on and the box defaulting to limp home mode. Not that expensive to fix though.

Check the ABS and ETC work properly, if possible find a big area of loose gravel or wet grass where you can try both, full lock on the steering and nail the throttle to test the ETC. You shouldn't get a dash full of warning lights the ETC light should come on while operating and then go off shortly afterwards.

Check all the twiddly bits like electric windows and central locking. If water gets into the fuse box on the drivers side (usually through a badly fitted windscreen which leaks) it can do nasty things to the central locking, basically holds the locking actuators in and burns them all out. Also can cause horrible corrosion inside the fuse box requiring a new one. A few hundred quid to fix so worth checking - also worth having a peek up under the dash (access panel below steering wheel) for any rusty marks that indicate water ingress.

Air suspension: be wary of anything that is flat or needs to pump itself up at all when the engine is started. It will probably just be the air spring(s) leaking they won't break the bank but it is better to have one that doesn't! A recent invoice for new air springs would be a bonus. The air spring vehicles can have a remote to raise and lower the back end for hitching a trailer, which would be a bonus (it isn't supplied as standard). If it has air susp check the "off road" height works properly.

Active Cornering Enhancement makes them handle better but to be honest I have never found the standard vehicle's handling a problem, it is much better than a Series 1 Discovery and I prefer the simplicity of a coil spring non-ACE vehicle.

Look for any abnormal smoke - a Td5 is a very clean running engine and you should only get a wisp of smoke under hard acceleration, anything blue/white/grey indicates engine problems. Check the oil level as the cylinder head can crack and allow diesel to leak into the sump - high oil level is something to be wary of and a new cyl head is ££££££.

I would stick with the 16" wheels not the 18", better ride, much better selection of tyres if you decide to go off road, and much cheaper selection of tyres if you don't.

If you get a late one with a centre difflock fitted it would be a bonus as the standard traction control system I find massively annoying (mine doesn't have a diff lock) could be useful on a slippery slipway... and certainly makes all the difference off road.

Check for signs of coolant leaks around the radiator (crimping can fail around the end tanks of the radiator but mostly on early Td5s - new rad required - not that cheap) you are looking for a pinkish staining around the bottom of the rad.

Check the aircon works if fitted, should be lots of cold air arriving very quickly, all aircon systems can suffer leaks/depressurisation and the safety switch will cut the compressor off, so you won't really know about it except for a lack of cold air. Not necessarily a reason not to buy it but a damn good bargaining point!

Finally if you buy one, it is a good idea to jack up the corners and remove all the wheels to make sure you can. Alloys can seize onto the hubs over a period of time if they haven't been removed and I have personally spent 45 minutes with 3"x9" timber and a sledgehammer trying to get one off in the past... amusing if in the garage, less so if P*ing with rain in the middle of the night and you have a puncture...

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pike

Am I asking for trouble & would I be better off with something else ? Landcruiser?

If it helps, I was told a year ago by a large motor trader that deals only in 4x4's (from all the manufacturers) that "we never lift the bonnet on a toyota", also said that they only touch land rovers with manufacturers warranty otherwise they don't bother.


BTW Also matches my experiences

See what What Cars website says about both of them.....

Discovery
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=678 (52 reviews)
They say - Reliability: Fingers crossed over reliability

Landcruiser
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-readers.aspx?RT=571 (14 reviews)
They say - Reliability: A tough, durable workhorse

Says it all.

[codprawn]

Funnily enough What Car also attack the new Range Rover for depreciation - and yet barely mention it for the Audi A8 or BMW7 series which actually lose £10k MORE a year!!!

I once saw an article where What Car knocked off a safety point on a Jaguar becuase it didn't have linked wash/wipe which I detest.

NOT my favourite car mag!!!

[codprawn]

Again if Land Rover's are so bad how come they have the best residuals???

Don't believe me? Check what they go for at auction - a lot more than the Foreign stuff!!!

[ADS]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Funnily enough What Car also attack the new Range Rover for depreciation - and yet barely mention it for the Audi A8 or BMW7 series which actually lose £10k MORE a year!!!

I once saw an article where What Car knocked off a safety point on a Jaguar becuase it didn't have linked wash/wipe which I detest.

NOT my favourite car mag!!!

I generally read Top Gear, although to be honest its now becoming more of a lifestyle rather than a car mag. Autocar is very good and generally unbiased, I used to subscribe but it comes out twice a month and I never got a chance to read all of it. Particularly, when your buying PBO and Rib Int as well!

Alex

[codprawn]

Brilliant synopsis from Mr Luxton!!!

My hand too bad to write all that!!!

Just remember if there is no diff lock fitted it can be added - all the gubbins were there but LR thought people wouldn't want it with traction control.

Also agree on ACE - drove models with and without - Disco 2 corners very flat anyway - amazing. ACE tends to give a hard ride offroad and is more to go wrong.

My favourite would be one with rear air suspension as great for towing but to be honest I think condition is more important than being too fussy on spec.

Try out the Hill Decent Control - think it's the same thing as the traction control anyway but in opposition. Just find a very steep hill.

Don't go for 18" wheels - you want big sidewalls.

Please remember they need more servicing than a normal vehicle - a bit of TLC goes a long way.

Just remember people laugh at all the grease nipples on landrovers - and yet modern boat trailers could do with a few in the right places!!!

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Again if Land Rover's are so bad how come they have the best residuals???

Simple, because lots of people like them and buy them....doesn't make them better though! (VHS vs Betamax)

I think that on the whole they do look better, maybe more european? The fact that they used old BL parts up until recently says a lot.

I remember back in early '90's I took a range rover classic to a local garage (LR speciaists, but not main agent) to have the usual auto transmission knock sorted out. The owner (who has a LR enthusiast) said that this "problem" had existed since the RR was first designed in the '70s and all that was needed was a small hole for the oil to lubricate which would solve the problem. "If it was made by the Japs they would have sorted this out" where his very words..

I take your point about reviews, I take all reviews (except those on rib.net ) with a pinch of salt however, because you don't like the magazine then the readers comments aren't valid? These are real readers!

[Jeff Pike]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

.... things to ask/check include:

That must have taken some time to write - Many thanks - a lot of useful information there.

Cheers.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Stuart M

Simple, because lots of people like them and buy them....doesn't make them better though! (VHS vs Betamax)

I think that on the whole they do look better, maybe more european? The fact that they used old BL parts up until recently says a lot.

I remember back in early '90's I took a range rover classic to a local garage (LR speciaists, but not main agent) to have the usual auto transmission knock sorted out. The owner (who has a LR enthusiast) said that this "problem" had existed since the RR was first designed in the '70s and all that was needed was a small hole for the oil to lubricate which would solve the problem. "If it was made by the Japs they would have sorted this out" where his very words..

I take your point about reviews, I take all reviews (except those on rib.net ) with a pinch of salt however, because you don't like the magazine then the readers comments aren't valid? These are real readers!

RR Classic was fitted with a Yank auto box until 1985 - then a ZF 4spd which is almost the same as the one used until the last Disco 2. Don't know about this clunk??? Sounds more like prop UJs.

[Slaphead]

Jeff,
I have a 1994 Landcruiser VX auto with the 4.2 TD engine with 217k miles on her. I tow a Pacific 22 with it all up weight about 2.7 tonnes. You are aware you are towing a heavy weight but does so without any problem. Steep inclines are not a problem either. I have not had any problems with the engine or major components other than minor electrical faults like window motors or faulty alarm. It does about 21mpg, probably a bit more on motorways but does not burn any oil or loose any ATF. It is not quick off the mark but you can sit in her literally all day and still be comfortable. There are none to be had in the scrapyards so I think that speaks volumes for their build quality and are easy enough to purchase off e bay. Rare as hens teeth in N Ireland

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Just remember if there is no diff lock fitted it can be added - all the gubbins were there but LR thought people wouldn't want it with traction control.

Only on some though - some vehicles you just need the lever and cable (early ones I think), others (like mine ... 2002 model) don't have the diff lock guts in the transfer box so it is a more involved and expensive process. Didn't bother as I have this for going off the road:





The "clunk" referred to is mainshaft spline wear between gearbox and transfer box, affects manuals as much as autos (maybe more) but not a problem on anything built after some time in 1996 when the required oil drillings were added, definitely not a problem on most 300Tdi Discoverys and any Td5. All vehicles have a bit of backlash in the transmission if you shift from drive>reverse>drive>reverse especially when hot, this is where taking somebody with you who knows their stuff is important because anybody in the business will know what is normal and what is to be worried about!

IMHO the great thing about the older ones (everything pre D3 basically) is that the major units - engine, gearboxes, transfer box, diffs etc - are more or less the same across the range and cost very little to recondition/replace if required. I could take the transfer box out of a 1985 90 and fit it to my 2002 Discovery, for example. This is both good and bad but it means you are not faced with multi thousand pound bills if something does goes pop.

[Stuart M]

Originally Posted by BogMonster

The "clunk" referred to is mainshaft spline wear between gearbox and transfer box, affects manuals as much as autos (maybe more) but not a problem on anything built after some time in 1996 when the required oil drillings were added

That was it! - So it only took LR 20 years to drill that hole. Nice quick product development

[BogMonster]

Originally Posted by Stuart M

That was it! - So it only took LR 20 years to drill that hole. Nice quick product development

26 years and actually it is four holes IIRC so that it only 6.5 years per hole

anyway why ruin a perfectly good trade in selling gearboxes?

[codprawn]

Well LandRover have t0 do something otherwise they would never sell any vehicles - they just last too long!!!

Seriously though they may clunk but they still keep going!!! Never had the prob myself though.

[ADS]

Landrover series 1 on ebay


Has this been molested, im sure its not meant to look that hideous.

[Searider]

Just looking to replace my 1986 V8 Range Rover with 256000 miles for a newer (1995) TDI 300 Disco - with 308000 miles.
Both previously owned by my Dad for towing car trailers (loaded) around the country.

Under those conditions he has found the following:
V8 engines last 100000 miles
TDI engines have always gone the distance (last one sold had 380000 miles)
Gearboxes in the TDIs last 100000 miles
Gearboxes in the V8s last 200000 miles (had a transfer box as well though)
Axles and diffs have never needed any attention.

But - the metal mice do like them!