Defender Station Wagon TD5

[codprawn]

Gavin WHY do you HATE Landrover's so much???

I suppose all the people who love them - who rely on them for work or even their lives(like the SAS) are ALL wrong???

You say about rusting and you shouldn't need to do that to a new vehicle - didn't you read what I said about the cockle pickers in the Swansea area? Most of them went over to Jap vehicles a few years ago because their Landies were only lasting them a few years - then they discovered the Jap vehicles weren't lasting half as long!!! These people drive every day through horrendous conditions where if a vehicle lets them down they are DEAD!!!! And I am NOT joking - the tide comes in at up to 14mph here - not the place to break down!!!

Still you are obviously SO biased whatever anyone says will make NO difference!!!

[peteb]

F......g H...ll I have looked at the reviews, do you think they are real or written by Japs?

I thought I had researched them well, I went through all old threads on here and it seemed there were a lot of supporters. I have looked at the Mitsubishi, the Sport came in at £15,500 or so, but it is a bit dated now (Yes I know the Defender is as well but bear with me) and the Shogun SWB was £22,000 ish. I am not bothered about it being posh as I have a selection of 'posh cars', this is only to use 3 or 4 times a year to tow the boat, perhaps a bit more if I get used to it. My Frontera which I am selling has only done 3k miles a year at most, I just need a bit more grunt which the diesel will give compared to the 2.2 16v petrol.

Boat and trailer is about 2,300kg, Frontera max is 2,600, Defender is 3,500 so a bit spare there. I drove military land rovers all over the world, mainly in the Arctic with studded tyres, so no concerns about what I am buying, also well aware of the lack of right arm space. I notice the military use the wolf engine and not the TD5, seems the electrics can give problems on the TD5.

The main reason for focusing on the Defender 90 was the resale value, I don't know what the hell people see in them but they do hold their value and are the best 4x4 by far or were until I read those reviews . Anyway I read the magazines and the vehicle is now ordered so I will have to wait and see. I cannot believe the price, the car is coming in from Italy, apparently Land Rover sell to countries at different prices depending on their tax, Italy is high in vehicle tax so the importer buys them there tax free, they have been sold to the Italians cheeper so he gets them cheaper, he imports 40 a month so gets a good discount.

I have saved £5,800 all in all that is not to be sniffed at, plus I get 3yrs Land Rover warranty and Europe assistance, I also get a certificate of conformaty. I spoke to my insurance company and the price to insure it is the same price as the Frontera, as it has the conformaty certificate they don't care where it has come from. I have checked the chassis number and it was built in March, then despatched to Italy a few weeks ago, now on it's journey back, daft I know and i wonder how much money is made by the ferry companies and hauliers playing this daft game?

So all in all it will be an occassional tow car and ued for the odd booze cruise Thanks to all for the help, and even those that have well and truly opened my eyes although after I had made the order, sort of a little concerned now but will take it on the chin for rushing

Last thing, I am being told that the bates are the best tow bars and that is what is being fitted, I am VERY concerned about the problem I read on another post here, could I please have the definitive answer to if they 'could' be OK if well looked after, if not what are the other options. The wife caught me with my three land Rover porn mags and my list of extras and gadgets I am choosing to decorate the 'tree' Winch, under floor metal protectors, side bars, light rail, chequered plates, roof rack e.t.c e.t.c. Only jokng, but do people really put 10% of the crap in those adverts on their cars? Most of the adverts were all the same in the three mags, well lesson learnt stick to Land Rover international

So, be straight, is the saving I got pretty good? No UK dealer can come with £3k of it.

[Keith Hart]

I think that the FACT is, if you buy a Japanese 4x4 it will be reliable. I think also that the FACT is Land Rover have a very odd mix of quality and strong build let down by some very badly engineered bits.

However another certain FACT is that if you like LRs then you overlook all of the faults and really LOVE them. I have no idea why.

Just take a look at my Land Rover:

At least 23 years old, (it was originaly built in the 70's and in 1982 rebuilt as an ambulance), no power steering, non inertia reel seatbelts, it requires a degree in gymnastics to get into the drivers cab, one speed tiny wipers, a heater that gets as hot as a cold wet night in Snowdon, it is quite lterally as aerodynamic as my garage (I have the pictures to prove it), it is noisy, it does 12 mpg, it is soooo ugly it makes Camilla look like a young supermodel, it has a comfortable cruising speed of just 40 mph, which is fortunate as the brakes seem to have been made for a small pedalcycle, you can not adjust the driver's seat, the horn makes less noise than an ant with laryngitis, the lights have all the power of an exhausted aaa battery, when it rains you get drips of water in the cab, when it's dry you get all sorts of draughts, the gearstick is at such and odd angle that you need to have a unversal joint fitted in your left elbow to change gear. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point.

However I really LOVE that vehicle. It has that undefinable and unquantifiable thing called 'character'. It is big, the view from the driver's cab is truly panoramic, you can paint it yourself with a brush in a few hours, the body is aluminium, you can NEVER lose it in a car park, on single track roads the other driver always gives way, it still has the two-tone horn fitted, I never listen to the radio when driving it - I have the window open and listen to the growl and roar of that beautiful V8 engine, it was designed to negotiate a 60 degree slope, it has huge ground clearence, it always attracts attention, it looks as if it really means business - which it does, you can drive for months or even years without ever seeing another one...

Now I know that mine is at the extreem end of the spectrum, but the point I think that I'm getting to is that, Land Rovers, you either love 'em or hate 'em and there ain't really no explaining why!

But I must add that up here in the real countryside most of the farmers have them in preference to the Japanese stuff. In Inverness (the nearest city) the urbanites prefer the Jap models. Hmmmmmmm!

Now to prove that my truck is the same shape as my garage just take a look at the attached photograph. And just to prove that the family can enjoy the quirkyness of a Land Rover, here they are as well.

You know I've just realised WHY I like my LR...it's because it reminde me of ME: Big, ugly and awkward!

Keith (gosh I went on a bit there) Hart

[Louise]

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

it is quite lterally as aerodynamic as my garage (I have the pictures to prove it)

I beg to differ. With (what looks like) a sloping roof, the garage is surely more aerodynamic?!

[eupa]

Now I know that mine is at the extreem end of the spectrum, but the point I think that I'm getting to is that, Land Rovers, you either love 'em or hate 'em and there ain't really no explaining why!

I think the overall problem is that LR could have vastly improved on the quirks over the years...

LR's as distinct from RR's seem to always be driven by the same "kind" of people. Mainly it seems by extroverts who have to prove to the world that they are extroverts. Does it show a lack of personality? Because when you come down to it..

...exceptonally alcoholic as regards gas
...extremely uncomfortable
...past their sell-by date
.......................

I can just see the posts this is going to create.... so will walk quietly away while still intact...


Jonathan

[Nick Hearne]

Jonathan,
You stick with your cheap Jap stuff as you like it so much!
As you like your style of car so much you are hardly going to appreciate the finer points of LR!
Nick

[eupa]

As you like your style of car so much you are hardly going to appreciate the finer points of LR!

Nick - still trying to find them.
With my cheap jappo stuff - incidently its cheap korean stuff- as I know you like the finer point in life BUT

(One Kia Sorento + 2x250 yams HPDI)= one Discovery price wise...

It is extraordinary that the Uk with its fine engineering history, and abundance of creative minds both interlectural, artwise and other( include what you like). HASNT PRODUCE ONE DECENT OUTBOARD OVER 15HP
Mind you just as well... it would probably breakdown on launching.

Yesterday I was filling my beloved Sorento up with LPG at 25p a liter and in pulls a 1910 RR ( Rolls Royce) - with 7.000.000 miles on the clock ( perhaps somebody knows this one - first owner was a Mr. Moor) - You could not hear the engine- so what happened between ? Where has all the prowess gone?
where are all the AJS/NORTONS ect.. Where are all Rileys/Healys/Armstrongs/
where are all the Acons/BBC's. and look at RR now.. Pathetic, owned by a bunch of K***TS and what are we left with??

the one and only bone rattler which was designed in 1946 Brilliant. Dont make me laugh. In fact come to think about it... I can trace my current back problems to when I use to work on my uncles farm in Surrey and was using a swb Landrover with a 2 liter petrol engine to tow trailers...

I bet most of the furniture you sell comes from... that country with a three colour flag?

Jonathan

[Nick Hearne]

I bet most of the furniture you sell comes from... that country with a three colour flag?

Yes You are right on this one, red, white & blue the union jack!

[Keith Hart]

As I said, you either love 'em or hate 'em.

LR's as distinct from RR's seem to always be driven by the same "kind" of people. Mainly it seems by extroverts who have to prove to the world that they are extroverts.

I wouldn't say that about the farmers up here who drive them though.

Keith Hart

[codprawn]

Firstly Pete NO need to worry about Dixon Bate - standard fit by LR and used by utility companies etc the world over.

Looking back at the posts the problem was NOT the Dixon Bate adjustable hitch - it was with the towball itself. i don't think DB make this type of towball - either it has been retrofitted at some time OR DB have stopped making it - either way you will NOT have a problem!!!

Secondly Italy has always been a good place to buy a LR - they are very popular over there - used especially in the Dolomites to cope with the snow and mountains.

Last year when I went to Spain/France/Andorra/Portugal I couldn't believe how many LR I saw - not just the Spainsh built ones but all sorts - from old Series types to brand new Discoverys and Range Rovers - there were FAR more than Jap vehicles in the mountains - strange how the people who REALLY need them in their lives only buy the best!!!

It sickens me all the people prepared to bash Land Rover based on heresay - remember the Mercedes A class and the ELK test??? The car was downright dangerous - as was the Audi TT - seriously bad design faults that could have killed people - how many people slag them off???

People often base their experience of Land Rover's on really old vehicles - they say they are slow with a harsh ride etc. Landrover got rid of leaf springs in 1983 - Jap and Yank vehicles STILL use them. My 110 is faster and rides/handles better than my mates Warrior - and his has broken down twice!!!

[codprawn]

On a final note so much depends on the way they are looked after - when I bought mine I gave it a full service - only to find the gearbox was filled with EP90 - a few mates of mine have had similar problems - all these vehicles were serviced by so called Land Rover specialists.

Land Rover haven't used EP90 in gearboxes since the Series III - the oil is too thick for the pump to send it to the bearings - hence the gears are ok but the bearing play up!!! Luckily mine was fine and I get no problems but I wonder how many wrecked gearboxes have been caused by these well meaning idiots???

[eupa]

I wouldn't say that about the farmers up here who drive them though

Farmers?- endangered species, especialy the French variety. Come on Codders, you must admit that our Tony gave that French poodle one up his "a***e". Anyway a farmer by nature is an extrovert. Excuse the puns

Jonathan

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by codprawn

On a final note so much depends on the way they are looked after - when I bought mine I gave it a full service - only to find the gearbox was filled with EP90 - a few mates of mine have had similar problems - all these vehicles were serviced by so called Land Rover specialists.

Land Rover haven't used EP90 in gearboxes since the Series III - the oil is too thick for the pump to send it to the bearings - hence the gears are ok but the bearing play up!!! Luckily mine was fine and I get no problems but I wonder how many wrecked gearboxes have been caused by these well meaning idiots???

Codders how can you tell that oil is in the gear box?
Nick

[eupa]

Land Rover haven't used EP90 in gearboxes since the Series III - the oil is too thick for the pump to send it to the bearings - hence the gears are ok but the bearing play up!!! Luckily mine was fine and I get no problems but I wonder how many wrecked gearboxes have been caused by these well meaning idiots???

Excuse me Codders - but I think that is """""". If I remember from my Rangey days - there is no pump in the gearbox. ( somebody correct me if wrong) - the transfer box is splash fed by the main box- I presume that LR's are the same as RR"s. I have yet to hear of a dedicated pump for a gear box in any vehicle- what would be the point as the gears and bearings are imersed in oil anyway?? I stand to be corrected if this is not true----- but all this from bitter experience with RR transfer boxes going bang...In fact the seals of the TB leaked like a sieve and then the bearing cages which were nylon would melt and hey presto no gears

Jonathan

[eupa]

Codders how can you tell that oil is in the gear box?
Nick

Dont forget this guy who is about 36 has had 35 years mechanical experience
Its probaly black treacle and does the same job as ep90!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Anyway apart from pulling a few legs -- Ep90 has been replaced by 80 for some time now. In 1964- most boxes were using ep140 and a few older relics ( morris 8's ect )- wait for it 180!!!!!

But most gearbox additives were based on wale sperm oil - and that dried up when wale hunting was banned ( sometime in the late 60's)
I dont know what they use now as have been out of the additive business
for some time ( Essochem paramins additives group- 4 years of dedicated service). 80 is as good as 90 .

Jonathan

[codprawn]

You can tell if it is an EP type oil by the colour and the smell - it really stinks and is a different sort of browny colour to oil - not very accurate but comes down to experience. If it looks/feels/smells the same as what comes out of your diff then it is EP stuff.

EUPA what the hell are you on about - no gearbox uses an oil pump??? Many do - including the old Range Rover 4sp and the newer 5spd boxes.

Landrover have used a variety of oils in their gearboxes over the years - including ATF in manual boxes!!!

Gears love EP oils - that's why they are used in outboard drive legs etc - problem is the stuff is too thick to pump very well - especially in cold weather.

[peteb]

Horror Have been out in the boat all day, in the car park on the way out I saw a 110, now being a landy freak I went for a gander, bl..dy h..l, P reg and rusty as hell. All around the lower back, round the rivets on the back panel, flip down side steps twisted and rusted, panic has just set in WHAT have I done ?

Either someone has taken no care of it or it is just crap. I have heard that the parts are good it is just the goons that fit it together are crap, not my choice of words just what I was told, but why the rust the paintwork is blistered all over. My Frontera is an S reg without a single spot of rust, immaculate but unfortunately not strong enough really, I will be sad to see it go, just don't know the best place to sell it.

Anyway back to the Land Rover, I see what people say about odd people getting them, I realise I may need to start smoking roll ups and grow a beard, but then that is not too difficult , but tell me why after all my research these monsters keep their money, in the USA they sell for more 10yrs old than new 4x4's over there.

How many barrels of duck oil do I need and can I squirt it behind these rivets that I have seen rusting. With my trailer I looked at a few old ones, took notice of where they rusted and now keep all those parts well greased and oiled, not difficult but it seems to work. So Land Rover owners please come clean and tell me where the rust hot spots are, I have put my money where my mouth is and need to look after this mad investment.

Cheers everybody, very, very helpful but scary on some points.

[jwalker]

Well my Disco's engine just failed while towing the boat. I had to rescue the boat first and the Disco second with my Jeep. Landrover sh*t. And I've had a few of them. End of story.

[peteb]

Was the defender not voted Top Gears award for best car of all time?

http://www.carpages.co.uk/land_rover...echo=709045890

http://www.landrovermalaysia.com.my/...caralltime.htm

What is wrong with these people, what do they like about them then? All I know is that my wife said she fancied a bit of rough so I bought one

Anyway, seeing as this new heap of sh.t is going to keep breaking down, does anyone know if my boat and trailer would be recovered either here or in Europe under the Land Rover Europe asssistance when it breaks down?

[eupa]

You can tell if it is an EP type oil by the colour and the smell

Would you like -with your vast knowledge base to inform what "ep" stands for?
you have 10 minutes and this is timed to 1950 GMt+1. I do know.

Jonathan