Auto v Manual in adverse conditions.

Mollers · 27 November 2005, 19:03

As most of you know by now, we had it pretty badly on Fri pm/eve. The snow arrived very quickly and everything ground to a standstill. I've just been chewing the fat with the missus' Dad re. our expriences of Friday. He has a 10 month old Mitzy LWB Shogun 3.2 DiD Auto and I have a L200 2.5 manual Tractor. The Shogun is also tiptronic. I was chuffed with the L200, it behaved beautifully. I took to the back lanes as the main roads were gridlocked. All four wheels working hard to maintain traction. Using the box on decents it was very shore footed. I delivered 7 school kids home in good time. Now the Old Man, with the aid of heaps more gizmos than me, struggled. The main prob was the Auto box. He said that in tiptronic 1st he wasn't getting anything like enough engine brake. When he used the brakes to slow his decent (bearing in mind we had 2" of snow on 1" of frozen hail) the thing was slewing around even with ABS. He was very unimpressed with the whole experience. So it begs the question just how much help is all this technology. Didn't take the X5 out as I was afraid that someone might slide into it,so can't comment on it's performance.

Richard B · 27 November 2005, 19:54

Isn't there a big difference in tyres on the L200 and the Shogun? IIRC, Shoguns have big wide tyres with a fairly ordinary car-like tread pattern as standard, and don't L200s usualy have narrower tyre with deeper tread?

Erin · 27 November 2005, 20:55

Isn't there a huge difference in the weight of the two cars also? Surely no amount of ABS can stop 3.5 tons sliding down a slipery hill.

codprawn · 27 November 2005, 20:55

Yes tyres would have a lot to do with it. skinny nobbly ones will grip far better in snow up to a certain depth.

Nice to see some people have noticed it is better to use the gears than the brakes to slow down......

Mollers · 27 November 2005, 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard B

Isn't there a big difference in tyres on the L200 and the Shogun? IIRC, Shoguns have big wide tyres with a fairly ordinary car-like tread pattern as standard, and don't L200s usualy have narrower tyre with deeper tread?

Nope, tyre sizes are the same. Tread patterns differ only slightly. Mine is the Animal, only the commercial "work" model has narrower wheels.

Rogue Wave · 27 November 2005, 21:14

I hate Automatics,

Mollers · 27 November 2005, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erin

Isn't there a huge difference in the weight of the two cars also? Surely no amount of ABS can stop 3.5 tons sliding down a slipery hill.

Good point, I'm not sure what the L200 weighs. Can't see how a Shogun can be a lot heavier though, it only has a bit more tin at the back.

Hugh Jardon · 27 November 2005, 21:30

i very much doubt if a shogun weighs in at 3.5 tons more like just under two or so, Mollers....did the shogun have down hill decent button? mine has and seems to be fine

trouble is that soon as you touch the brakes and lock the wheels then all control is lost, if you can brake or engine brake and keep em turning then you will have more control. are you sure he wasnt locking the wheels up?

jwalker · 28 November 2005, 00:08

ABS is poor in snowy conditions and braking distances can be longer than with direct brakes. A gentle touch and cadence braking.

It's not a valid comparison having different folk in different vehicles and then comparing the transmission as though all else is equal.

Mollers · 28 November 2005, 09:59

[QUOTE=Mollulnan] All four wheels working hard to maintain traction. Using the box on decents it was very shore footed.

Read as "sure" footed. Didn't have to take to the beach!

Rogue Wave · 28 November 2005, 18:21

What you say, I still hate Automatics.....Whilst we are on the subject I am not too fond of electronics in a gearbox either. I see it as a point of failure!

Nate · 29 November 2005, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

What you say, I still hate Automatics.....Whilst we are on the subject I am not too fond of electronics in a gearbox either. I see it as a point of failure!

Yeah - and synchromesh is for wimps...

Richard B · 29 November 2005, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate

Yeah - and synchromesh is for wimps...

And so are gear levers - you should get in there and move the cogs around by hand...

Mark Halliday · 29 November 2005, 11:24

We haven't had snow here yet, but the winter before last we had our 1 days worth.

It just happened to coincide with my daughters inset day at school, so we went sledging on Butser Hill.

I took my RR Classic 3.9 Auto (pre ABS) with Michelin M+Ss.

It had rained, frozen and then snowed. There was about 2" snow on the road, with sheet ice under it.
We had to stop on a steepish bit as someone was trying to park.

Pulling away was difficult but would have been much harder with a manual.
Being a a lazy git, I tried to get as far up the hill as possible. The single lane track at the top has gert great lumps of wood along the side to stop people driving on the grass. There was a 2-3' deep drift across the track at the gate into the top car park, which even I would not attempt, so I had to reverse 200 yards back to a turning point. As there is less than zero engine braking in reverse with an auto, I had to lock the thing into 1 and let it roll.
There were horrible noises from the transmission and drive train but we got back down in full control.

So, in my experiance auto is great for going up hill, and crap for going down in reverse.

codprawn · 29 November 2005, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Halliday

So, in my experiance auto is great for going up hill, and crap for going down in reverse.

Also pretty crap at going downhill forwards butfor going uphill o r creeping over boulders etc it's great!!!

Hugh Jardon · 29 November 2005, 13:21

mmmmmm but autos are great in adverse conditions where there is a 20 mile queue of traffic going into cornwall and you are stop starting.....then i absolutely love autos especially with the caravan on the back

have a down hill button for my auto but so rarely come across conditions where downhill on ice is an issue. But if i did then i know i would prefer a manual.

so for me for 99.999999% of the time autos are super

Jono · 29 November 2005, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

mmmmmm but autos are great in adverse conditions where there is a 20 mile queue of traffic going into cornwall and you are stop starting.......:

No... manual in low ratio 1st gear on tickover... then watch in your mirror at the poor bastard behind having to stop-start/slip his clutch... what the hell? It passes the time in a traffic jam

Hugh Jardon · 29 November 2005, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

No... manual in low ratio 1st gear on tickover... then watch in your mirror at the poor bastard behind having to stop-start/slip his clutch... what the hell? It passes the time in a traffic jam

love it but the auto is one better in that it will creep along without the jerkyness of low ratio and all you have to do is cover the brake whereas on a manual you have to cover clutch and brake.

i know where you are coming from ah ha, similar sense of humour i guess

Mark Halliday · 29 November 2005, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

Also pretty crap at going downhill forwards

I know, the lack of engine braking in an auto is a real pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

then i absolutely love autos especially with the caravan on the back

Caravan, youv'e got a *&"@~#ing CARAVAN. There would not be 20 mile jam on the outskirts of Cornwall if there were no caravans.
Ever fancied taking it to Dunsfold so Top Gear can play with it?

codprawn · 29 November 2005, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

love it but the auto is one better in that it will creep along without the jerkyness of low ratio and all you have to do is cover the brake whereas on a manual you have to cover clutch and brake.

i know where you are coming from ah ha, similar sense of humour i guess

Have you any idea just how slowly a Land Rover will creep along in low range 1st? It really is amazing!!!

Yes I often like driving up steep hills in very low ratios!!!

Has anyone ever noticed the fact that almost any diesel powered vehicle will go up any hill on tickover without stalling? And I am NOT on about the latest fly by wire things either. The trick is to get the vehicle moving on tickover before the hill - then it will haul it's way up without touching the throttle.