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Old 30 January 2007, 17:31   #31
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Originally Posted by whiteminiman View Post
.....There IS a lot of fear about being sued for helping people.

It is ALL unfounded.
As an "ex professional emergency service" employee, I would have to disagree with you.... unless you qualify it.
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Old 30 January 2007, 17:51   #32
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Been a while since I was employed as such but I m still a State Registered Paramedic...

1. I am sure there is a legal obligation to provide 'assistance' to your level of training and available equipment or be deemed negligent, (as a healthcare professional at least).
2. In parts of the USA if you collapse on the street 1 in 4 people present will know how to perform CPR. Wonder what the ratio is in the UK?
3. If it was you or your wife/husband/son/daughter/mother/father/etc would you want me (or a first aider, etc) to do my best for you/them or worry if you were going to sue me?

Where do you stand on responding to a Mayday or Pan call? Or is that diffferent due to the legal requirement to respond?

Could YOU really walk past someone DYING and live with the fact you may have been able to make a positive difference? I couldn't...

Teach CPR and 1st aid in schools - far more useful than some of the current subjects. How many kids have been on 999 and similar programs 'saving' lifes by common sense? How many more lifes would be saved if we trained these kids who are only worried about helping instead of worrying about litigation?

Also what if someone knows your qualifications and that you failed to use your training to help a relative? In that situation I would as sure as hell sue you ar$e off....

SDG

PS No I can't quote case law, statistics, etc.
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Old 30 January 2007, 18:01   #33
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2. In parts of the USA if you collapse on the street 1 in 4 people present will know how to perform CPR. Wonder what the ratio is in the UK?
About the same: http://www.bhf.org.uk/news/printout....917&artID=8550

the bhf are trying to put a spin on it that too many of these people were trained as a result of employment and only 1/10 are volunteering to be trained - but don't really see what difference it makes.
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Old 30 January 2007, 18:05   #34
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Me neither - if I need CPR I don't care if the NHS/SJAB/RC or monkeys dressed in stocking and suspenders trained you as long as you do your best to save me!

...from 16 yrs experience as an NHS paramedic I think its a lot higher ratio in the UK than the USA.

SDG
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Old 30 January 2007, 20:27   #35
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Been a while since I was employed as such but I m still a State Registered Paramedic...

1. I am sure there is a legal obligation to provide 'assistance' to your level of training and available equipment or be deemed negligent, (as a healthcare professional at least).
There is no legal obligation at all in the UK. The HPC may well have something in the Code of Practice obliging you to stop and help (as the GMC and NMC do) but that is not a legal obligation - you won't go to court.

Quote:
Where do you stand on responding to a Mayday or Pan call? Or is that diffferent due to the legal requirement to respond?
OLL v Secretary of State for Transport says that even the Coastguard do not have a legal duty to respond to a Mayday call. This was a case brought by the adventure organisation that was responsible for the teenagers dying in the woefully unprepared sea kayaking expedition off Lyme Bay. The company alleged that because the Coastguard made some mistakes in activating and allocating rescue assets they should be partially liable for the death of the teenagers. The court held that the Coastguard did not have a duty to respond.

So, if HMCG hasn't been held liable by the courts. I very much doubt that Joe Blogs out for a nice day will be held liable.

Quote:
Could YOU really walk past someone DYING and live with the fact you may have been able to make a positive difference? I couldn't...
Nope.... and I've never walked past. But they all died!

Quote:
Also what if someone knows your qualifications and that you failed to use your training to help a relative? In that situation I would as sure as hell sue you ar$e off....
On what possible grounds? You can't do that. There is no legal obligation to rescue in the UK, or any Common Law jurisdiction. In France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Netherlands and Japan you could end up with a variety of CRIMINAL punishments including hefty fines and even imprisonment for failing to help. As well as being left exposed to a civil action (ie being sued)

The most you could do, if the individual was a registered Health Care Professional would be to report them to the appropriate registry body in an attempt to get the struck off.

Jono - Re your comment, when discussing the "professional rescuer" the law is very muddled and unclear. Ambulance Service do have a duty to respond (Kent v Griffiths). Police do not (Alexandrou v Oxford). Fire Service does not (Capital and Counties plc v Hampshire County Council). Coastguard do not (OLL v Secretary of State for Transport). There is no logical basis for this distinction, particularly if you consider that the agencies might well be working together at an incident.
But yes, if you're talking about working on the Ambulance - Medical Negligence rears it's head, but that is a different issue to what is being discussed here. I thought we were discussing stopping to help in a "Good Samaritan" kind of way?

Cheers, WMM

P.S. Tim, sorry for hijacking your thread.
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Old 31 January 2007, 03:08   #36
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Anyway, aside from all this legal stuff!!

Who do you all use for your training?

I've always used St. John's in the past and they've been really good.

Is there an RYA course in first aid?
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Old 31 January 2007, 03:23   #37
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Cheers, WMM

P.S. Tim, sorry for hijacking your thread.
Thats ok

But the thread was merely asking how many of you are first aid trained
It now seems lots of myths and legends have reared their ugly heads.

Some people can't justify spending £50- £75 on a course that only last for 3 years but that course could save the life of Wife /Husband or kids.

Others think that if you help someone out using the skills learnt on your first aid course and they die you will be sued.

Legal points are running riot and have still not cleared up any arguements for either side only some points of law.

I will alway's go to the aid of some one I have done on a few occasions now , and have never been sued on those that did die .

If you were an Ambulance Paramedic would you prefer that someone trained in Lay First Aid who was first on scene did the right thing and if needed commenced CPR until the Ambulance arrived . Or would you want them to leave well alone and the chances of recovery are diminishing until you arrive on scene.

Scenario Rib.net rally
one of your crew suffers a heart attack May Day sent .
What do you do, nothing or wish you knew what to do.

I think it is a sad reflection on society if we are more worried about getting sued than helping someone in distress .

RLSS UK quote "Turning bystanders into lifesavers"
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Old 31 January 2007, 03:26   #38
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Anyway, aside from all this legal stuff!!

Who do you all use for your training?

I've always used St. John's in the past and they've been really good.

Is there an RYA course in first aid?
Yes RYA First Aid at Sea a one day course costs around £50- £75 depending on where you take it.
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Old 31 January 2007, 04:22   #39
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..., and have never been sued on those that did die .

"


I, on the other hand, am very close to someone who faced legal action when a decision cost a man his life. It was a 50/50 call and it went the wrong way. The man would have died if no action had been taken anyway. So I donít have your faith in justice being served to the Good Samaritan, sorry.
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Old 31 January 2007, 04:52   #40
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Well all i can say is after reading all of the coments in this thread i believe i have made a good choice in which speices i should attempt to rescue.
so let it be known in the event of a horse and rider being lost at sea I will be the one who will perform first aid on the horse... and everyone else feel free to dodge the legal minefield of rescuing the human..
I shall watch the court case's with interest good luck..
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