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Old 26 January 2007, 08:00   #11
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How many of you are First Aid Trained
I am. I've done a variety of first aid courses over the years, and apart from the CPR ratios, the main change seems to be that for day-to-day situations first aiders are instructed to do as little as absolutely necessary.

The fundamental principles are to preserve life, prevent further injury, and minimise discomfort until medical assistance is on site. Keep the casualty breathing, stop them bleeding to death, summon assistance, keep them as comfortable as possible. Don't do anything else.

There is scope for more advanced first aid, and it's something that people should consider if they are regularly going to be in situations where medical assistance isn't easily at hand.

However I think that, whether or not they are prepared to carry out CPR, absolutely everyone should have some first aid knowledge as a basic life skill. Things like maintaining an airway, slowing down major bleeds, minimising burn injuries are not complicated and involve minimal intervention.

John
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Old 26 January 2007, 08:22   #12
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However I think that, whether or not they are prepared to carry out CPR, absolutely everyone should have some first aid knowledge as a basic life skill. Things like maintaining an airway, slowing down major bleeds, minimising burn injuries are not complicated and involve minimal intervention.

John
Totally agree.
I would like to see it taught in schools and for those life skills to follow them through their education and into adult life .
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Old 26 January 2007, 09:22   #13
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Yes I believe that if you declare that you are a 1st aider, you become legally liable. SO claim nothing.
I did a few of them including advanced for Yachtmaster.
It would be interesting to see who would perform Emergency Tracheotomy if needed to prevent a choker assuming the Heimlich etc doesnt work which is quite hard to do on a fat person.

Meanwhile on a lighter note....
There were three Golfers who drove off the first.
One went 300 yards down the middle with the second driving into the bushes on the right and the third half way up the middle.
You go on ahead says the third short hitter to the long hitter and i will help him find his ball. SO in he went to the bushes after the 2nd hitter and they stayed in there for an age. Eventually the long hitter returned having played out and went in to the bushes to find one of them giving the other a "good seeing to" and the other turning purple....
My Lord he exclaims, what are you doing he asks, says the person back, I came in to help him find his ball and he started having a heart attack...
To which the first man asks " are you not supposed to be giving him the kiss of life" to which the embarrassed man answers, " well it started out that way"....
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Old 26 January 2007, 11:20   #14
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I've done the RYA Course (Inc Cat C) for my Instructors tickets, and First Aid At Work for my work with Army Cadets. I'm also about to do an AED course with my housemate, who is a Paramedic.

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Yes I believe that if you declare that you are a 1st aider, you become legally liable. SO claim nothing.
Nope. Providing you are acting within the limits of your training you will not be held liable.
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Old 26 January 2007, 12:15   #15
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now 1 rescue breath, 30 compressions, 1 breath etc (I think?)
Sorry. Total Grey Moment.

Yes, it was 30:2.
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Old 26 January 2007, 12:41   #16
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Originally Posted by tim griffin View Post
How many of you are First Aid Trained .
I am - adults, paediatrics and use of AED's, but then again I need it for work and need to be retrained every 6 months.

Regarding legal liability etc - the "Good Samaritan" principle supports those acting in an emergency, although it won't protect those who go beyond accepted practices (e.g. an over zealous ER viewer who goes about giving homemade tracheostomies by punching holes in peoples' tracheas!). Even if there is a calculated risk it is correct to apply a treatment that should benefit the majority of casualties. You should not, however, apply a doubtful practice just for the sake of doing something.

Once a person (lay or medically trained) has initiated care of a casualty, they have established a duty of care until further help arrives.

The Bolam principle/test also applies - it states that medical professionals are not liable for diagnosis/treatment as long as they are following a responsible body of medical opinion i.e. professionals are judged against the standard of their peers. The actions of First Aiders therefore should only be compared against the average First Aider with equivalent training and expertise.
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Old 26 January 2007, 12:45   #17
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Recommend the training though need updating (been a long time since Bronze Medallion!!!!)

Hopefully a pre-arranged session from a highly expert paramedic will take place soon down these parts ('First Aid at Sea').

We've got to wait 'till the weather warms up as it plays havoc with his arthritis (despite the Damarts).

K & P
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Old 26 January 2007, 12:52   #18
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How many of you are First Aid Trained.
What would you do if an emergency happened at home/work or boating
Do you think it is an important skill we should have.
yes, and I do think it is important, considering the delays that are likely in getting help at sea.

Or did you mean...

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Griffin marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up when getting involved in a new sport or pastime/hobby where the potential of an individual needing first aid is raised due to the nature of the activity.
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Old 26 January 2007, 14:30   #19
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yes, and I do think it is important, considering the delays that are likely in getting help at sea.

Or did you mean...

Griffin Marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up


LOL Sorry Polwart way off the mark in touting for busines just a question I am keen to know the answer to . I can always advertise a course in the trade section and to be honest I run a fair few so never felt the need to advertise.
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Old 26 January 2007, 16:00   #20
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Griffin Marine offer basic one day courses and yet none of you seem to be signing up


LOL Sorry Polwart way off the mark in touting for busines just a question I am keen to know the answer to . I can always advertise a course in the trade section and to be honest I run a fair few so never felt the need to advertise.
Tim, OK no offence intended.

As I see it the major downside of FA training is that it takes quite a bit of time (1 day to learn the basics - 4 days to be "considered by most organisations" as a "first aider"). That is quite a lot of time to commit to something that you hope never to need. Especially since most of us are short of time to get on the boat anyway. On top of this first aid certificates tend to have a 3 year shelf life - whilst most other training is usually unlimited. Add to that the "it will never happen to me mentality" and the reality that most people will rarely use the skills they learn on a 1 day first aid course anyway.

I am not trying to criticise this - but it would all contribute to making first aid training relatively less attractive than other ways to spend my money.

I completely support the idea of everyone learning first aid at school.

I also believe it should be a significant element of a PB2 course (from memory more time is spent tying knots than on first aid).

Now for the positives (?) if I was looking for a first aid course for ribbing then i would want to be being taught by someone who actually has some experience actually doing first aid regularly on genuine casualties. Many "sea schools" offer the RYA first aid course but I suspect most of their trainers have never actually maintained a casualties airway, dealt with fractures or life threatening bleeding. If you go to one of the voluntary aid organisations (e.g. red cross, st john, st andrews) you stand a better chance of this (although beware it is possible to become a trainer without ever dealing with real casualties, in real situations, in these orgs too. However, generally, I wouldn't recommend them for a marine environment unless it is a specialist course (red cross certainly run a small number of specialist outdoor courses) - as the additional challenges of being remote, in a boat etc are not something most of these organisations deal with regularly.

I suspect that griffinmarine may be a good bet for this in that it sounds like you have a strong background in rescue/lifesaving type work as well as marine stuff.

To convince me to get excited about spending my precious time on a fa course I would suggest if someone can design a course in which most of the time is spent afloat so it feels like I am boating not sitting in a classroom then that would win me over. I realise the RYA course may spend some of the time afloat (I think) but its not most. In fact I think it should almost be possible to do an entire course for 3-4 people in a 6-7m rib... ...add in some refresher MoB drills, recovering dummies rather than a danboy, some thinking about what to do e.g. mid solent with the casualty (e.g. run to shore - and quickly work out the navigation etc) - all under the pressure of having a simulated casualty to deal with.

OK thats enough waffling by me - except to mention my final pet hate with fa instructors. Mnemonics... (e.g. Fishshaped to discribe the causes of unconsciousness) - there are millions of them and all they do is help you quickly learn to pass the exam - in my experience they are not actually much use when faced with a casualty - where as understanding a little bit - gives a much better idea of the causes and actions.

Cheers,

Neil
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