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Old 22 March 2006, 17:52   #31
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Must agree with Codders there.

Some of the Saab mid size engines if placed some cities will actually output cleaner air than they took in. Engine size does not matter.
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Old 22 March 2006, 17:53   #32
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Bit like eating meat and accepting it is a dead animal... if you are happy to do it, then that's your choice. Don't be kidding yourself though.
Meat is a dead animal - or am I missing something?
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Old 22 March 2006, 17:59   #33
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At the end of the day, they are more environmentally damaging than norma cars.
t
Yer right, define a "normal" car
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Old 22 March 2006, 17:59   #34
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I've never understood why road tax was graduated according to engine size/CO2 anyway... (from an environmental standpoint).

...we already pay a significant tax on road fuel, which if you drive more costs you more. Similarly if you chose to drive a fuel inefficient vehicle it costs you more. And the more CO2 you produce the more it costs you. All direct correlations to the amount of fuel you consume and therefore the amount of tax you pay.

The cost difference (and tax revenue generated) is much more significant on fuel costs than on road tax.
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:01   #35
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Originally Posted by codprawn
Freelander diesel versus a BMW 530??? Don't think so somehow!!!

Also people assume that big engines are worse than small ones - not always the case - a subaru 2lL uses far more fuel than a TVR 4L - not on paper but in real life!!!
Oh dear Cod I think you have gone off the rails, when you say a Subaru 2L I hope you are referring to the Impreza turbo. Similarly, freelander diesel versus a petrol 530 maybe, but thats not a fair comparison, freelander diesel vs 530diesel or 520/525 diesel is a fairer test and I would think the Beemer would kick out less C02. Auto boxes also bump up the C02's.
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:21   #36
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... I stand by my earlier comment that you don't want to be hit by one, especially if you are in a normal car.
Fine, but I don't want to be hit by a 'normal' car either. I've been driving for 39 years and I've never run into another vehicle but I have been run into by other vehicles on 5 occasions that I can recall. Fortunately, I have always been in a larger car and, since none of the occupants of my vehicles have been damaged in these accidents, I consider them to be safe. Do you suggest I buy and drive a smaller vehicle and risk damage or even death? It sounds a bit dramatic but that is a reality. I presently drive a 4x4 and, bar one, at 35mpg motorway cruising, it is the most frugal vehicle I've owned. For me, as well as the safety issue, it is a comfortable vehicle and, consequently, limits fatigue, gives me a good view of the road, open or urban, covers the miles effortlessly and it is a pleasure to drive.

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...At the end of the day, they are more environmentally damaging than norma cars.
I presume you've got data to support that statement.
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:22   #37
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Meat is a dead animal - or am I missing something?
I knew I should never had started this

The point I was trying to make, badly I know, is that you get people that eat meat but don't wanna acknowledge that it was an living animal. Bit like veggies wearing leather shoes etc..

There is a point here really, 4wds are not as (generally) as efficient as a bulk standard normal saloon or hatchback car. And there a load of other compromises associated with them. I was trying to say acknowledge that, and if you are happy with it carry on. But, don't get into lots of little comparisons with individual makes. Generally, 4WDS & SUV's use loadsa fuel, resources etc..and 99.999% of them are not used for what they are designed for. If that doesn't seem slightly wasteful then, I don't know what is.

If you've got one and used it in anger fair play, I don't deny they are fun (I did 28K miles per annum in a 110 defender pick up for my first 4 years at work). But I rarely saw 20mpg and frequently less.

Interesting debate though considering none of these float..

t
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:29   #38
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But you can't even say "generally" - that's the argument Greenpeace etc are using.

What is a 4x4 anyway? Most of the Jap stuff is part time 4wd - it is only in RWD on the road!!!

Freelanders and CRVs etc are not real 4x4s in my opinion - they are CARS - alright maybe they have drive to other wheels at times but they weigh the same as cars - they drive like cars - and they offroad like cars!!!
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:31   #39
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Originally Posted by Phil Davies
Yes, but unfortunately the fact of the matter is that 98% of them tow nothing, never go off-road...
Why is that unfortunate?
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..and cause chaos in town centres and outside schools, particularly if driven by women.
Do they?
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They are also frequently driven at slow speeds on B-roads because they handle like stuck pigs and generally get in the way of everyone else who can't see past them to overtake.
What can I say without insulting you?
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Much as I adore my Range Rover I can nevertheless totally understand why they irritate so many other people.
I can't. I appears to be paranoia to me.
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Old 22 March 2006, 18:31   #40
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Originally Posted by codprawn
But you can't even say "generally" - that's the argument Greenpeace etc are using.

What is a 4x4 anyway? Most of the Jap stuff is part time 4wd - it is only in RWD on the road!!!

Freelanders and CRVs etc are not real 4x4s in my opinion - they are CARS - alright maybe they have drive to other wheels at times but they weigh the same as cars - they drive like cars - and they offroad like cars!!!
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