10 Minutes in the back of the police van

Bigmuz7 · 15 March 2010, 15:46

Sitting 7 foot up in the cab of the 30 tonner, some eagle eyed young constable spotted me with my phone in hand today and gave me a pull and I had to explain myself

In fact I was switching on the bluetooth so the stereo/gps/head unit could pick it up for hands free operation. He accused me of using it, which I denied, and was easy to disprove, the phone never left my lap, to which he said any use of it at all is an infringement of the law. So after giving me some

he confirmed he was letting me off

.. I asked him for guidance on how different it was that, pressing the touch screen on the phone a couple of times, was illegal, but touching the touch screen on the stereo/gps head unit wasnt ? to which I got a somewhat confused reply and thought it best, I alight forthwith from the constables van, and proceed in an orderly fashion back to my cab

Whats the position ? seems to be if you touch the damn thing, its game over .. I can control it from the headunit anyway so there isnt any need .. apart from switch on the blue tooth ofcourse

chewy · 15 March 2010, 15:54

I've honestly given up with one of my local forces.

Its like they can use radios whilst driving as its only short brief conversations, they also don't have to indicate at junctions, can run you off the road without having lights or siren on and cut you up..... useless!

jyasaki · 15 March 2010, 16:09

Most California law enforcement officers use: handheld mic for the radio, non-hands-free cellphone (though complaints seem to have that declining), and a touch-screen computer (15 inch monitor, linked to some LE information network ) on the lower dash; usually all while driving.

Civilian drivers are allowed to: eat, apply makeup, style hair, change clothes, read newspapers, etc., but having a phone to your ear is illegal. Go figure.

[Note: I do not condone doing any of the above while driving; just seen it all being done.]

jky

willk · 15 March 2010, 16:10

You lads should move here - the coppers don't give a rat's @ss what you do, so long as you don't bother them. The place just kinda runs itself by consensus.

jwalker · 15 March 2010, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Civilian drivers are allowed to: eat, apply makeup, style hair, change clothes, read newspapers, etc., but having a phone to your ear is illegal. Go figure.

Wot, if I moved there I could put me makeup on... cool...

Poly · 15 March 2010, 16:57

Muz - my understanding is:

(1) there is a specifc set of regulations forbiding the use of hand held mobile telephone. Even if you are not distracted by it - you are breaking the law. 3 points and £60 quid is standard - but for an LGV driver at court you could be fined £2500 - if you want to argue with them! The offence is using the device not calling from it. Changing settings in your lap is no different from texting on your knee.
(2) turning on the head unit is an offence if they cause you to drive without due care and attention - but its not sepecifically banned.

May not be logical but thats the way it is.

Erin · 15 March 2010, 17:26

It comes down to whether the device is attached to the vehicle AFAIK. That is why CB radios and older car phones with handsets attached by coily wires were legal. They were in effect attached/mounted to the vehicle. Anything portable which takes your attentiopn from the road is a no-no. Liekwise a GPS/sat nav fixed to your windscreen is ok.

willk · 15 March 2010, 17:33

... and yet wives are permitted

biffer · 15 March 2010, 18:02

ummm! ACAB

chewy · 15 March 2010, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

Muz - my understanding is:

(1) there is a specifc set of regulations forbiding the use of hand held mobile telephone. Even if you are not distracted by it - you are breaking the law. 3 points and £60 quid is standard - but for an LGV driver at court you could be fined £2500 - if you want to argue with them! The offence is using the device not calling from it. Changing settings in your lap is no different from texting on your knee.
(2) turning on the head unit is an offence if they cause you to drive without due care and attention - but its not sepecifically banned.

May not be logical but thats the way it is.

Unless you using your iphone as a dictaphone then its ok.

biffer · 15 March 2010, 18:39

i nearly come a cropper the other morning, i was hacking down the motorway on the phone to my brother trying to get the answer to the crossword that i was doing, i had to break sharply and i dropped my electric razor in my cornflakes

Poly · 15 March 2010, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

Unless you using your iphone as a dictaphone and have lots of money for a good lawyer then its possibly ok.

I've fixed it for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by erin

It comes down to whether the device is attached to the vehicle AFAIK. That is why CB radios and older car phones with handsets attached by coily wires were legal.

no - old style car phones are illegal (to use whilst driving). and cb radios are specifically excluded from the rules. the definition of "hand held" is quite literally if it is held at some point during use.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm

chewy · 15 March 2010, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I've fixed it for you.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

no - old style car phones are illegal (to use whilst driving). and cb radios are specifically excluded from the rules. the definition of "hand held" is quite literally if it is held at some point during use.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm

I aren't trying to wind you up now but what about hand held CB's, reason I ask is I use mine in my Land Rover?

Bigmuz7 · 15 March 2010, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm

Ok so a quick read of that just adds to the confusion .. what does the term 'using' actually mean , my understanding is/was making a call or texting .. whereas an iphone for example could be being 'used' as an MP3 player, on the same device ... but thats not illegal is it ? .. a bit like chewys point ?

Poly · 15 March 2010, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy

I aren't trying to wind you up now but what about hand held CB's,

if you read the link I think it is quite clear that ALL "CB" radios would be permitted (but not necessarily saying that you wouldn't get done for driving without due care and attention!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmuz

whereas an iphone for example could be being 'used' as an MP3 player, on the same device ... but thats not illegal is it ?

An iPhone could be an MP3 player, a SatNav, a Dictaphone, etc. And there is some case law that use as a dictaphone is not in breach of the rules (but might still be driving without due care). That said I don't want to line the lawyers pockets or spend unnecessary time and stress arguing the point in the back of police car so I'd take the approach that - if you are going to use it for those purposes your should mount dash mount it (so its not hand held). I'm not without fault in this area (just as I don't alwats stay under the speed limit) but accept that if I'm caught I'm probably looking at a fine and points.

I think you got off lightly.

willk · 15 March 2010, 20:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you got off lightly.

Oh Biggers, you were a Very Naughty Boy!

Say it: "Who's a Naughty Boy Then?"

...anyway, A Company Director and his Personal Assistant were travelling by car, when she asked him "can I use your Dictaphone?"

"While Polwart says it's Legal, I'd rather you used your finger", he replied.

Bigmuz7 · 15 March 2010, 20:56

Hehe

Bigmuz7 · 15 March 2010, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you got off lightly.

Yeah .. but I think there is a lot of confusion about the law though, and I would have been mighty cheesed if he booked me.. given that you can fiddle with so many other things as has already been pointed out, and there is always the catch all, of driving with undue care and attention .. which of course could have been me knocking down an old lady because I was too busy checking my mirrors for some police car pulling me for a minor 'perceived' offence .. I mean where do you draw the line?

Naturally I played my paragon of virtue card

.. I am with all those who agree that being on the phone whilst driving.. especially in LGV's is not good .. as you pointed out Polwart .. time and time again I have witnessed punters driving for long enough whilst on 'auto pilot' and not paying attention to whats going on around them.. maybe he was chancing his arm and pulled me because he thought I was phoning, and only decided to not proceed as I denied vehemently that I was making a call

I also came across another fact that they are not allowed to actually check the phone to see if it was actually being used at the point of occurrence, this guy made no attempt to look at my hands free gear or corroborate what I had said that I wasnt 'using' it .. but as I said earlier that would be easy to establish that I wasnt by my provider account records

hobnob · 15 March 2010, 23:03

Some recent police driving made my jaw drop. I was walking near Waterloo station, near the Thames, adjacent to the Royal Festival Hall and new shops cafes, etc...

Police car on blues and twos comes flying down the road towards rHungerford bridge. I'm too busy getting out of the way to estimate speed, but north of 40-50mph? Past the milling tourists, drunks, school group, usual for the area.

Car reaches the nearest point to the London Eye. Lights off. Long pause. Two PC's emerge from car, slowly don hats, and proceed at a conversational walking pace to the Eye itself. Given the risks they'd just taken with dozens of pedestrians I could hardly believe my eyes.

willfinch36 · 16 March 2010, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobnob

Some recent police driving made my jaw drop. I was walking near Waterloo station, near the Thames, adjacent to the Royal Festival Hall and new shops cafes, etc...

Police car on blues and twos comes flying down the road towards rHungerford bridge. I'm too busy getting out of the way to estimate speed, but north of 40-50mph? Past the milling tourists, drunks, school group, usual for the area.

Car reaches the nearest point to the London Eye. Lights off. Long pause. Two PC's emerge from car, slowly don hats, and proceed at a conversational walking pace to the Eye itself. Given the risks they'd just taken with dozens of pedestrians I could hardly believe my eyes.

Yeah the police are some of the worst drivers on the road! I have seen so many near- misses involving police cars!