Charity Teasure Hunt

[Mark Halliday]

Louise

We hope to join you, me, 6 y/o Natasha and Vivienne (missus). Make that at least 9 now.
I shall try to drag 2 other boats along too. No promises.

[Louise]

Great news, Mark, would love to see your crowd there and any other boats you can rustle up! The more the merrier, and the more money we will raise .

P.S. Sorry, Nick, and anyone else who was hoping for the first date.

[Louise]

On behalf of Paul, Sue, Richard and myself I would like to say a very big THANK YOU to Peter J and his company Pool Store who have donated TWO ride-on water toys as prizes in the treasure hunt. They arrived today and they look like they will bring lots of fun to the families that win them.

If you would like a chance to win one of these (or one of the other prizes) please post here so we know how many clue sheets to print.

To Janet & Bill, Bogi and Robin - I'm not sure if you are able to make the new date (19th September). Please post here to let me know. Thanks.

Any other donations of prizes will be gratefully received!!

[bogib]

I was hoping to be able to be away from home on my wedding anniversary (4th of September) for the treasure hunt. Unfortunately I am stuck in Utrecht (Netherland) on 19th (flying from Stansted on 17th). Hope to be able attend next treasure hunt.

Bogi

[jackeen]

You may have read about the unfortunate accident that happened to a young girl recently which involved a safety boat. See this thread for further information. http://www.rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5963

In light of the above and as this is an organised event (by Louise) it got me thinking what precautions, safety requirements, risk evaluations etc where necessary and prudent for the protection of the kids and parents involved . God forbid that anything might happen to someone as it is a “fun” event but unfortunately and regrettably sometimes they do. I think I also remember Richard talking about the need for the evaluation of risk on a different thread.

Additionally, I recently attended the Bangor ribraid along with Gavin and Alan and on day one 3 people where flipped from their rib and one required medical attention and some stitches. Safety briefings where held each day and generally it was well organised and nothing else happened on day two.

When I was talking to the organiser (Louise’s equivalent) they said that they had to have, I think he called it, “public liability” insurance as ultimately they (the organisers) would be held responsible for any unfortunate mishap and part of the fees was to cover this insurance. Individual insurance by each skipper would not suffice and they may not have any. Additionally, I think he said that there was a requirement for the organiser or a representative to be a qualified safety officer on the day.

I know this is a fun trip but hopefully, one of the professional experienced people here who knows what they're talking about knows what is required, if anything, to ensure the safety of all involved especially the kiddies -just incase it hasn't been addressed by the organiser.





Paul

[Louise]

Thanks for expressing your concerns, Paul.

I have not yet spoken with Paul, Sue or Richard but as a result of reading Paul's post, I think my co-organisers (Paul and Sue - who have done the vast majority of the work so far in organising this - and Richard) and I need to discuss whether the Treasure Hunt can go ahead or not. If we decide we cannot go ahead, I will be very sad for Paul and Sue who have worked incredibly hard on setting the clues and course. And I will, of course, return donated prizes.

In an age of litigation, personally, I do not want to be held liable (either legally, financially or morally) for any accidents which may occur and I don't think we have the time or inclination to organise public liability insurance. The four of us thought of this as a family cruise with the added 'fun' element of a treasure hunt.

Of course we have been considering the safety aspects of the event and hoped we had designed a suitable course, allowing adequate time to get to places, and we were intending to use our RIB as a support/safety boat, but as neither Richard nor I are trained first aiders perhaps this is not enough? Perhaps Kevin or Daniel could tell us what risk assessment, insurance etc they had for the June Treasure Hunt? Or maybe Martin could tell us what and how safety issues have been addressed for his club's Round the Island Log competition? Don't remember the question of safety/liability being asked on those threads.

Perhaps Paul, Sue, Richard and I have been naive in thinking we could organise a simple family fun day so easily and with so little cost (the whole proceeds of the entry fees would have gone to the charity - all prizes were donated). I think we assumed that everyone would be happy to be responsible for his/her own boat and crew, just as they are every other time they go boating.

To summarise, Paul's post has, rightfully, got me thinking more about the implications of organising such an event and I think we (the organisers) need to talk to decide if (and maybe how) we go forward with this. So watch this space. Sorry if we disappoint anyone.

Thinking more widely now, if we need to do full risk assessments and take out insurance for an event such as this one, does that mean the end of pre-planned cruising in company? I certainly hope not! Maybe an expert in safety or insurance could let us know?

[Nauti Buoy]

Originally Posted by Louise

In an age of litigation, personally, I do not want to be held liable (either legally, financially or morally) for any accidents which may occur and I don't think we have the time or inclination to organise public liability insurance. The four of us thought of this as a family cruise with the added 'fun' element of a treasure hunt.

I agree with you Louise, I think the world is going to become a very Sad place indeed if something as relatively simple as a day out with friends or New friends haveing a bit of harmless fun becomes subject to Litigation Laws then no one will be doing anything with anyone incase someone Sues them!

[Rich L]

Blimey..... I for one will sign a bit of paper taking full responsibility for myself and my occupants and recognising that we are all co-organisers if that helps?

Can't believe you'd have to cancel a family day for this reason. What a sick world.

[Nauti Buoy]

Originally Posted by Rich L

Blimey..... I for one will sign a bit of paper taking full responsibility for myself and my occupants and recognising that we are all co-organisers if that helps

Yes, so will I if I can make it and not moving house!!

[Rich L]

I agree with you Louise, I think the world is going to become a very Sad place indeed if something as relatively simple as a day out with friends or New friends haveing a bit of harmless fun becomes subject to Litigation Laws then no one will be doing anything with anyone incase someone Sues them!

Welcome to America...

[Louise]

Huge thanks for your support Nautibuoy and RichL. I think it would be a great shame if we had to cancel what was meant to be just a simple day of fun for everyone with the added bonus of raising a small amount of money for a small, local charity. Thanks also to those who have PMed me with ideas of how we might be able to progress. We'll obviously make a decision soon. In the meantime, please continue to post here and let us know what you think - this may well help us decide where we go from here.

Cheers!

[The Jackeens]

To be fair Louise I think Paul was drawing together several strands of advice re safety recently. Worth considering for an organised fee paying event.

Richard B recently criticised Alan Priddy quite strongly for putting people in danger with his charity events. However we personally support such events and think you should go ahead.

Us

[Louise]

Didn't think I'd done anything except thank Paul for raising his concerns and agree with him that we needed to think more about that aspect? In what way am I not being fair?

Your reference to Richard's comment is out of context and was on another forum so I don't think it has a place here.

[Bittentobuggery]

Has anybody approached BIBOA as they have obviously addressed and resolved the liability question.

Gordon Compton is currently cruising co-ordinator I believe. 07899 790625

Nice people. Could you not persuade them to run it under their auspices, if all else fails...

[The Jackeens]

Good idea Brian. Alan Priddy may also have advice?

Missus

[Louise]

Brian, someone else has already suggested this (via PM) but I need to see what the other co-organisers think before I do anything about it. If we did go down that road, I assume entrants would need to join BIBOA, adding to the expense! Thanks for the suggestion though!

[The Jackeens]

We support the idea of this Charity (fee-paying) event 100% and I will be happy to check with colleagues in Hampshire/Porstmouth and So'ton City Councils re: any advice they can give to help.

Us

[Alan]

Louise,

Sadly its the same problem with any formalised / organised cruise or event these days. If you and Mr B are organising an event, folk are paying for it even if the proceeds are going to charity then there is a risk, however slight that if someone was injured either on the event or by a boat in the event, then you as the organisers could be sued. The ott example we used to discuss endlessly at BIBOA committee meetings was a RIB hitting a boatload of stockbrokers each earning £250k p.a. who then are injured and off work for a year. £1 mill claim for lost earnings here we come.

IMHO there is a world of difference, legally and liability wise in a bunch of people on rib.net saying "lets meet up on sat on the solent" and someone saying "i am organising an event, pay me x to attend (although for a good cause)". As event organisers you have both a duty of care and a risk of liability if something goes wrong.

You might be able to get liability insurance but suspect costs would make event prohibitive to run. BIBOA's liability insurance for officers and committee (& by extension cruise organisers) is a signficant part of the clubs total spend. Liability was also the reason for changing from a club to a company limited by liability.

OK so having said all that what can you do? Here's some thoughts:

1) Find out what DW do for their poker runs.
2) Goahead anyway and rely on people being sensible and nothing untoward happening.
3) Turn it into an informal cruise with mebbe some sort of charity auction/raffle/quiz at a pub to do the fund raising bit
4) Organise it under the auspices (& liability insurance protection) of a club such as BIBOA (Who I am sure would be happy for this to happen but would insist on skippers being members) or mebbe the Royal Southern YC (See Martin's thread about predicted log)

I agree that its a complete arse & a consequence of the compensation culture/nanny state but you'd be daft not to think seriously about it.

All IMHO/FWIW and the value of my advice might go up and down!

Alan

[Neal]

Two well made points (Paul & Louise). I know I am the new boy here but I took up this sport for the family fun of events like this. Safety at sea should always be the first consideration for everyone who goes out in any boat alone or in a group. I hope the event does take place (the kids are looking forward to it conditions permitting) and as always I am happy to take responsibility for my boat and crew . If there is a problem with this as an “event” for Louise and co then we should just meet up for a day out together. IMHO once an expert has been contacted he will go on the side of caution and we will be doing the paperwork this time next year.

Neal

[The Jackeens]

Very comprehensive advice Alan.


Us