Wanted Wanted hydraulic steering kit

jamiegolf · 21 October 2015, 09:50

Hi looking for kit for my rib with 60hp mariner two stroke. What you got?

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Xk59D · 21 October 2015, 18:14

I don't have one but for your setup i would never buy hydraulic, just get a decent non feedback helm. Be much cheaper too!

beerbelly · 21 October 2015, 18:28

if you change to a non feedback helm will that get rid of the 1/8 turn of freeplay I have at the wheel and would I have to change the cable at the same time
.sorry for the highjack

jamiegolf · 21 October 2015, 18:37

I know it's expensive, but I have fitted a stainless a frame and sikaflexed and bolted it in, went to put the steering cable back though the tilt tube and it won't line up now as the stainless tube sits in the way. Only solution I can see now is to fit hydraulic or remove engine and slide it to one side, didn't really want to disturb it. And the cable had a lot of play. Will post a pic when it light.

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Xk59D · 21 October 2015, 19:26

I have seastar on mine, the brand new design one with the new ram design. The old ones had a design flaw if you like that meant seals could fail prematurely, mines lasted 2 years for reference before it failed. I have read from 6 months upwards though so YMMV. You can't buy the seals to rebuild them here, they suggest you just buy a new ram here...... No thanks.... £££££££. Can buy rebuild kits in states or source your own seals.

Mines was under warranty so I got the new design with a cleaning seal effectively to stop dirt getting in when you use the steering. I think it is over 1k to buy and I don't think they are worth the money in terms of feel.

There is more or less the same play in my seastar that my non feedback helm had. Unfortunately, over 150hp or so there is little option but hydraulic.

I would just move whatever you need to and put the cable back on, 60hp is very easy to move about anyway. If you have excessive play then replace accordingly of course.

You are giving you self a lot of work when 15 mins will unbolt the engine, it is your money though

Xk59D · 21 October 2015, 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerbelly

if you change to a non feedback helm will that get rid of the 1/8 turn of freeplay I have at the wheel and would I have to change the cable at the same time
.sorry for the highjack

That is impossible to answer definitively, it depends if what you have is worn. I would say that 1/8th slop is pretty normal though. My hydraulic system is more or less the same as my non feedback was. I. E if at 12 it won't start to do anything until maybe 2 on a clock.

beerbelly · 21 October 2015, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xk59D

That is impossible to answer definitively, it depends if what you have is worn. I would say that 1/8th slop is pretty normal though. My hydraulic system is more or less the same as my non feedback was. I. E if at 12 it won't start to do anything until maybe 2 on a clock.

cheers sounds like there's nothing wrong with mine then about the same as yours .that's saved me some money

jamiegolf · 21 October 2015, 20:04

might just order a new cable then. Just need a engine crane next as 108kgs too much for me. Thanks

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Xk59D · 21 October 2015, 20:16

You don't need a crane for 60hp really, maybe easier yes if you can borrow one.

You could rig up something from your A frame to keep engine upright if it is a good A frame?. I. E skeg on ground via raising the jockey wheel then rig up straps to help keep it upright if you need it. A couple of strong friends will also help though

Good luck!

jamiegolf · 21 October 2015, 20:29

Thanks you got me thinking now 👍

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C-NUMB · 21 October 2015, 20:36

I have still the pretty basic cable steering on my SR with the 90 yam on. My plan was to change to hydraulic system but so far did not do anything. There is play and torque in the steering but it does not bother to much, maybe handling the chine walking at WOT would be easier with hydraulic. Eventually think current setup might don't be very safe/reliable so will upgrade to a heavy duty cable or hydraulic.

The hydraulic Baystar on another boat had little play after first bleeding, but after re doing it , this time very slowly, there is no play anymore. I think it takes plenty of time for the small bubbles to get cleared from the fluid, so might worth re doing if there is play.

Xk59D · 21 October 2015, 21:04

There is always a little play, there has to be a small amount due to the nature of the system. To clarify, it is not excessive but it is as good as it can be. Due to problems with mine I have had to bleed it several times from start to finish, there is no bubbles in the system. I know what that is like as that is how I noticed the old one was going, steering was just vague and could feel the air at times.

phantom 19 · 22 October 2015, 01:11

I have had Seastar / seastar pro for years on Rings / Phantoms, and Baystar on my Yamaha 70hp, I wouldn't use anything else and certainly not go back to cable steering.

You will always get a slight bit of slop on changing direction with hydraulic steering as the oils flow has to operate the directional shuttle valve in the base of Baystar / Seastar helms. if you have access to a Seastar Power Purge system it will remove any trapped air and does make a difference. The only leaks I have ever had from the systems in 15 years are from the helm steering shaft seal and both those have been from when I've disturbed the seal cover when fitting the protrim bracket.

As for controlling the 5.4 Chinerider / yam 90 I don't think anything will help you there! I cannot see the fascination with Seariders on this forum, I've had loads of them over the years awful things, last one I had I removed the Yamaha 90 and put it on a phantom 16 and pretty much gave the hull away to some other poor soul to experience!

Xk59D · 22 October 2015, 01:45

I dont know what cable you had in the past?

there is quite a big difference between non feedback and normal cable steering to clarify.

A hydraulic kit is circa 500 quid, a NFB is about 160 quid, absolute no brainer for me on small engines, spend the difference on fuel.

I agree that normal cable steering is crap, NFB is a must have.

As for leaks, it is common unfortunately. I done a lot of reading when mine started to leak at the ram. I think what happened was salt got pulled in and seals let go. IMO they should have rubber boots on them but alas.

On this forum alone there are a few failures if you look, example-

http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/seastar...eak-39855.html

Mines went circa 2 years, Doug and some else got 3 years. I will see how long the new design lasts on mine.

Pikey Dave · 22 October 2015, 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xk59D

....... I. E if at 12 it won't start to do anything until maybe 2 on a clock.

Sounds like you might have some air in there somewhere.

.....sh1t happens.......

Xk59D · 22 October 2015, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

Sounds like you might have some air in there somewhere.

.....sh1t happens.......

Im curious now, are you suggesting your helm has no slop? From my reading on them and general consensus, there has to be some slop due to the design of the system. I.e the valve needs to switch over and a small build up of pressure to get things moving? Common seems to be 1-2" of wheel play as the way it is described.

I have tried other helms when mine was failing and they all had a little play in them, some worse than others....air perhaps in some/all?

I'm very confident there is no air in mine though, or at least as little as can be without a power system anyway. I purged probably circa 5-6 litres out each side before calling it good. I made up a large header tank above the helm and kept at least 1 litre in it at all times whilst I filled up each side. I actually borrowed the proper tools from clyde outboards to do the job and they now use my improvised header tank method!

To clarify how i charged mine-

I didn't call it good when I first seen oil coming out the ram, I pushed and pulled the motor while someone worked the helm until it felt solid and I seen no air coming out the clear tubes I had into a collector reservoir (clear bottle). At that stage I purged about 5-6 litres each side in total and called it good. I done maybe 2 litres, changed side and repeat a few times. Due to the clear hoses at all points you get to see when no air is going back/forth. I left it a few weeks after some use and repeated the process in a smaller scale and result was the same.

If you have a better way then happy to have a go?

I should say once in use and engine torque applied it does help, same can be said for cable.

Next time I am at the boat I'll check exactly the slop at the wheel as 2pm was a rough guide based on memory...maybe it isn't as bad!

Pikey Dave · 22 October 2015, 18:31

There's a tiny bit of play, no more than 5 deg either way & you can hear the valves operate as soon as the wheel moves, no way is there 60deg of backlash.

Xk59D · 22 October 2015, 18:51

I'm at boat tomorrow, I'll check again and report back.

Anyways, as my old and new kit is the same feel wise, I'm sure there is no air too so we can perhaps just put it down to perception.

Xk59D · 22 October 2015, 19:01

Check this out towards the end- https://youtu.be/PSA8Nd4Awus

You can see on their display stand at the boat show the slop, I think mines is the same based on that. It is also substantially more than 5 degrees I would say and perhaps less than 60 too, also no weight moving either making it look better perhaps.

Anyways, perception I guess or definition of slops perhaps as I doubt our helms differ that much.

phantom 19 · 22 October 2015, 19:50

You need to put a power purge in it. It will get air out that you won't get out otherwise with zero mess and zero wastage. I'm surprised Clyde outboards don't use it to be honest.