Two Plotters - copy chip??

I have two plotters - the big Lowrance 7000C for route planning and for the Navigator, and a small 330C for depth and for heads up data to the helm.

I have only one chart chip. I have no objection to paying the £200 for that chip. But do I have to pay a second £200 for a second chip to go in the second plotter?

Can I simply copy the MMC card on my laptop onto a new blank 64K card?

What are the issues here - technically and legally.

Thanks

Bruce

Do the Cards not have cracks in them to prevent people doing just this ?
Yes the cards are expensive but I guess it would constitute software theft if you did so. Very interested to see the replies to this question and if it can actually be done

The cards have a special navionics format

Does this mean unlike PC software that they cannot ? be copied or can they ?

not sure if this is theft. I bought the card to use on my boat. Not to use in 'only one plotter on my boat'.....

Hi Bruce

This idea has crossed my mind too, as I have the 7000c as well and a second card would be useful to use in conjunction with the computer software for route planning. Your posting has prompted me to look into it a little further.

Are you sure that the card supplied is a MMC card and not a Secure Digital one ? I unfortunately left mine in the GPS and won’t be able to check till next weekend. These two cards look very similar but the Secure Digital one was specifically design for distributing copy write protected data and consequently the cards have built in functionality for data encryption, if this is the case then I would expect it to be difficult to copy.

Rgds

Pete

PS Secure Digital cards have a slider on the side to prevent accidentally write access MMC cards don’t.

No slider. It is an MMC. Lowrance provided a reader for a PC so it seems unlikely there is much in the way of hardware encryption. 64M. The book says ' {Navionics Charts}... work just like Map Create custom maps'. That means we sholud be able to do Menu | Menu | Browse MMC Files | ENT and then highlight a file and then ENT to copy. That should copy the file onto a blank MMC.

Or do it the hard way using Windows, or if that fails, brute force using, in DOS, the infamous XCOPY F: C: /c /h /e /k /y which always seems to work.

Hmmm....

Bruce

PS does anyone know how 'X-plain' works? It is mentioned in the Navionics flier but not in the Lowrance brochure

You CAN copy Navionics Charts on MMC although it probably is illegal!!

Lets just say I've got this friend ;) ;) who has copied his Navionics Map for another friend using a Verbatim Card Reader/Writer. The map my friend ;) copied was a Navionics Classic chart but worked perfectly just like the original. However as your chartplotters are colour, I presume they are Navionics Gold charts. I, I mean my friend has no experience of copying these but the idea should basically be the same just be sure to copy every file over including any hidden files that your computer may be hiding.

[QUOTE=swginn] You CAN copy Navionics Charts on MMC although it probably is illegal!!

Why should it be - if you have already paid once and it is not for distribution you should be ok - all this opens a huge can of worms - I remember a shop being "done" for selling non region encoded DVD players - they had all their stock taken away and were prosecuted by amongst others Trading Standards. Not long later Tesco started selling the same things - Trading standards decided "We will take no further action on this matter"!!!

My position is that if I copied a the files and gave them to someone else, or posted them on the web, I would clearly be in breach, although I am unsure if I could / would be prosecuted.

If I sold them to another party than I certainly could and probably would be prosecuted.

If I put them in my second boat (I don't have one bug enough :sick: !) then I would be in breach but sincerely doubt a prosecution would hold.

But to copy to put a second one in my single RIB, so I have a backup - essentially a repeat - of the map on my small screen in easy sight of the helm, with the big map for the navvigator - it is hard to argue that is a breach and it certainly seems unprosecutable....

Asked navionics direct this question( do not panic Bruce no names or forums mentioned ) the response in capital letters is Copy or reproduce and you will face prosecution !!!

I guess this means they want you to buy additional cards for each unit.

We looked at this in detail last night and for experimental purposes only =) successfully copied a chart. Files essential for the process need a helping hand to go accross but hey we are no einsteins as you say in the Uk and it took us all of 10 mins with minimal PC experience. There is scope for the dishonest to make fortunes here.............. :cool

orders please gents :D

Since the process of moving the MMC card between two plotters in Solent chop is an exercise fraught with risk, and I have every reason to suppose I might damage the card, I would like to make a backup on my home PC in case of problems. Could anyone (Verado?) PM me with any hints about how to be sure I have made a complete back-up copy?

Many thanks

Bruce

so I have a backup - essentially a repeat - of the map on my small screen in easy sight of the helm, with the big map for the navvigator - it is hard to argue that is a breach and it certainly seems unprosecutable....

That would not be a backup of the software.

If both were in use at the same time it would be very easy to argue that it is a breach of copyright & therefore would be prosecutable, but unless the copyright owner wanted to make an example of you, it is unlikely they would prosecute.

It would depend upon what the license says, but in general there are 2 types of software license:

1, The media can be copied only as a backup but not used.

2, The software can be installed on 2 (or more computers) provided that the computers belong to the same person & are not used at the same time ie a desktop & notebook. This is often know as a Borland license.

The 'shrinkwrap' license that covers most software has never been tested in an English court, the outcome of any test case would be extremely difficult to predict & the big software companies don't want to take the risk of a decision going against them.

Interesting site, wonder if the unlock codes are still valid ?

Pete

< Edit: link removed. JK >

Interesting site, wonder if the unlock codes are still valid ?

Pete

Pete,

As you appear to condone software theft, I assume you wouldn't object if someone posted the codes to your burglar alarm systems or 'borrowed' your RIB on the basis that they had already paid for one, but found for some reason they need two, one day.

Bruce,

Just to make it clear, did you buy or steal the second display ?

Pete,

As you appear to condone software theft, ?

Nick, not at all, I bought mine, however think software charts are expensive.

Bruce, Just to make it clear, did you buy or steal the second display ?

Steady



Pete

however think software charts are expensive.


Pete,

So are RIBS, Rolls-Royce cars, etc, but that doesn't mean I can post details on how to steal them.

There are a number of reasons why software charts are expensive, apart from being bloody time consuming & therefore expensive to produce, there is a limited market, HMHO demand a LARGE royalty on every chart sold & remember they are for boaters who can afford it.

Okay, so I take it there's no chance of a cheap CD for my Garmin then ? :eh:

Okay, so I take it there's no chance of a cheap CD for my Garmin then ? :eh:

Probably, try Tottenham Court Road :cool:

Ok...let me get this straight...if you found a way to copy cards please let me know how!!!!paid 400 dollars canadian for this map for the eastern great lakes...do not want to spend another for my portable

Have mapcreate topo and non topo...familiar with making maps but cant get this one to work in the units when i copy

Help

Was looking at the options available when I recently bought a new GPS. It seems the problem may be solved if you move to the CD version which will allow you to unlock the region and copy to two blank datacards for the two units.

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/bluechartCD.jsp#

Take a look at the link above but basically it says:

"Your MapSource unlock code is valid for use with your own Garmin GPS unit. A separate unique unlock code is needed for each GPS unit. If you own more than one GPS unit or upgrade to a new GPS unit, you will need a separate code for each GPS unit. If you personally own two Garmin GPS units, you are allowed to obtain a second unlock code for the same region for your own personal use at no additional charge. Simply repeat the unlock process for the second unit. No more than two GPS units may be unlocked with the purchase of a single unlock code. A new unlock code must be purchased if you have already unlocked two GPS units."

I know you'd have to buy again in CD format but I guess you could sell the exisitng datacard here, on ebay or somewhere! Dunno why it seems to be OK to have two sets of data when it comes from a CD but not from a datacard but at least this way you'd be legal.

Just a thought.

NICK

Okay, so I take it there's no chance of a cheap CD for my Garmin then ? :eh:

Oh, sure. The CD is cheap. The unlock codes, however, aren't.

jky

Yeah - about the same as a data card I think. The point is you can then put on 2 units and not pay twice - assuming the pre programmed data card can be sold on for not much less.

NICK

Oh, sure. The CD is cheap. The unlock codes, however, aren't.

jky

Apparently one bloke I once met actually had a CD that was totally unlocked so he had the charts for the whole world...................

Apparently one bloke I once met actually had a CD that was totally unlocked so he had the charts for the whole world...................

I bet if he could copy that he'd be a rich man. Have to live in South America or somewhere to avoid jail!

The Garmin CD with all the unlock codes wouldn't do you any good. Trust me I have one.

You will be able the see the chart on you lap top, and you will also be able to burn all these card onto an empty datacard, but your GPS will not be able to read them...

The unlock code to the CD are matched with the serial number on your GPS. So the code that will unlock you CD, will not always work with your GPS.

But of course if anyone have a solution to this please let me know (Just for the science of it of course.)

And I don't think that you will be able to copy the garmin datacard either since both the card and the reader are both made by garmin. And the only way I have found to access the card is true the garmin software.

The reason I have tried this is that I have a "corrupted" datacard. I will not read or write the card. So I wanted to try and "format" it, but can't get it to work

Rene

It would be nice if you could copy the data to the GPS unit and remove the card. Some scumbag nicked my card from my Raymarine plotter on Wed night while it was at Drivers wharf. An easy £200 steal for 2 secs work. Guess I will have to remove it each time now - something else to forget to bring when I go boating! Anyone else suffered from this? :@

Do not use the Copy command, I use Ghost from Norton Systems Works 2006. It has a ghost version that can run from Windows and makes it much easier. Remember, you must copy it sector by sector including the boot sector and the unpartitioned space.

Before getting confused with the legal terms, you must know that the CF card is not just one thing, the CF card is a container and the charts are the software. What is copyrighted is not the CF card, well at least in this case you are not reproducing the CF card, you are copying the software inside of it from one to other CF card.

There is no law that prevents a user from making a backup copies of their software, music etc. For example: You buy a music CD and copy it to your iPod.

In my case, I dont want to sale or distribute the (Charts) software that is contained on the CF card. I am the legitime owner and I want to copy it to another CF card, in the case that one card is distroyed, I will be using the backup card. Actually, I want to make 2 backup cards, one for keeping in the boat and the other at home. If the card on the GPS is damaged or stolen, I can grab the one from the boat or home and keep on going.

Making a backup copy of the CF card may violates the license agreement,,,,,!So What? There is not any law that says that is a crime to Violate license agreements. If so, I want to know what is the number of that law, it is in the Florida Statutes? US Constitution?

May be it is but on my 20+ years as a computer programmer, I have never seen any law State, Federal, City Ordinance, NATO, OEA, UN etc that explicity prohibit to make a backup copy of any software, music, etc. Again, if there is such law I want to know all about it but until I see that, I will keep trying to backup my CF card.

The old versions of Norton Ghost are brilliant - they have totally ruined the new ones - not the same at all................

Never thought of using it on my data cards - thanks for the tip!!!

I have two plotters - the big Lowrance 7000C for route planning and for the Navigator, and a small 330C for depth and for heads up data to the helm.

I have only one chart chip. I have no objection to paying the £200 for that chip. But do I have to pay a second £200 for a second chip to go in the second plotter?

Can I simply copy the MMC card on my laptop onto a new blank 64K card?

What are the issues here - technically and legally.

Thanks

Bruce

Could you not network the display that has the card in to the other unit?

So has "a friend of a friend" of any of us had any success making a backup copy using this method (Ghost)? I'd feel much happier knowing that my valuable data was secure :)

I thought that Navionics basically locked the charts to the MMC card? There is a hard coded unique ID on the card and whilst you can copy the card contents (via ghost or otherwise), my understanding is that the maps will not actually work unless they find the correct MMC card ID.

So if the original card fails, you're basically gubbed even if you have a backup.

Okay, so I take it there's no chance of a cheap CD for my Garmin then ? :eh:

Pete, PM sent ;)