Camera System

I am trying to devise a system of say four cameras that feed in via a selector switch into a recording device such as a DV recorder or similar.

I guess the first item on the shopping list is a small waterproof camera.

I have ordered one of these to try out from ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200121338624

Then I was thinking one of these to record from the cameras?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mustek-PVR-H140-Personal-Video-Recorder_W0QQitemZ330134792228QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3 761QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Then the only thing needed is a way of switching between cameras?

Any of you photography buffs out there know if this will work? I am not expecting broadcast quality but will it work?

Chris

have a look here and talk to these guys. they seem really helpful...

they have a multi camera system on the site...

I'm keen to get a bullet cam fitted to mine, but it's always been the recorder that seems to be the expensive/temperamental part

http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/index.html

Try these bad boys; www.actioncameras.co.uk
if they dont have it, it aint worth having & there cheap:D
Mike

Hi this is it:eh:
Action cameras London,
Just spoke to them & this is the pup's £249.00 inc vat complete package, waterproof cam with 1.5m lead, recording device 30gig with playback (not waterproof) 24hr record time, built in battery rechargable approx 3hr play time, record button on lead to cam all waterproof!!!! ARCHOS 404 ACTION PACKAGE playback is exellent qualty.:D :D :D :thumbs: The police use um:eek: . www.actioncameras.co.uk/acatalog/Archos_Helmet_Camera_Packages.html
So good ive just brought one:D
Mike.

Sorry try this; www.actioncameras.co.uk
Mike

Whatever you do don't get a hard drive recording device if you intend to go out in rough weather - get one that takes SD cards or similar - hard drives will not last!

They have them on Amazon for about £80!

Agree - solid state the way to go.

What about cameras that take DV tapes, the DogCam guys suggest that using video cameras that take DV Tapes are the best way to record from their cameras?

Chris

What about cameras that take DV tapes, the DogCam guys suggest that using video cameras that take DV Tapes are the best way to record from their cameras?

Chris

Only if it's hand held - as soon as you strap something down a tape or hard drive will not live for long!

SO if you made up case with plenty of padding to hold the camera in would that work Cookee?

Chris

We tried the Gecko helmet camera system at the Southampton Boat Show a couple of years ago and it wouldn't play anything after being in the race boat for a few minutes - and that was down Southampton water in fairly calm conditions - it was a hard drive system with padding - it would work ok if stuffed down your lifejacket, but that isn't an option for any length of time really!

Have a look on Amazon they are around £80.00 plus an SD card which are cheap as chips - that way if it gets wet or damaged it's not £300.00 down the drain!

Solid state is best for reliability, however it all depends what you want the footage for. Cheap solid state will be (relatively) low quality, expensive rugged solid state (£1600 ish) will be near DVD quality.

MiniDV tape gives superior quality even to the expensive solid state, but is (obviously) much more delicate. It gives the best quality though, and is the media of choice for the BBC etc in action footage.

The footage from the RNLI on BBC's Seaside Rescue is primarily filmed on miniDV tape using recorders with remote mics and cameras. Recorders are mounted into waterproof padded pelicases:

http://www.peliproducts.co.uk/cases.htm

and either fitted to the boats or carried in a special pouch on the back of the helmet camera wearer's lifejacket.

The recorders have been very reliable - that said, a simple solid state combined camera / recorder (like the Action 2000) is a lot cheaper and (depending on what you want to do with the footage) may be more than adequate. No point having a 25 MBit/s full Pal video sample if you are going to down sample it and stick it on youtube.

Cheers

Chris

Ihad the Action 2000 camera and it really isn't up to much!
The only way to go is the same way as Cookie- solid state with a pro bullet cam. All in all not too too expensive for hours of amusement during those boring cold winter months.....:cool:

Solid state is best for reliability, however it all depends what you want the footage for. Cheap solid state will be (relatively) low quality, expensive rugged solid state (£1600 ish) will be near DVD quality.

MiniDV tape gives superior quality even to the expensive solid state, but is (obviously) much more delicate. It gives the best quality though, and is the media of choice for the BBC etc in action footage.

The footage from the RNLI on BBC's Seaside Rescue is primarily filmed on miniDV tape using recorders with remote mics and cameras. Recorders are mounted into waterproof padded pelicases:

http://www.peliproducts.co.uk/cases.htm

and either fitted to the boats or carried in a special pouch on the back of the helmet camera wearer's lifejacket.

The recorders have been very reliable - that said, a simple solid state combined camera / recorder (like the Action 2000) is a lot cheaper and (depending on what you want to do with the footage) may be more than adequate. No point having a 25 MBit/s full Pal video sample if you are going to down sample it and stick it on youtube.

Cheers

Chris


Chris - How does the above compare to the solid state recorders price wise? I'm sure some people might be interested, although the quality is surprising and is a lot better than Youtube quality!

Where can one find a card based recorder for sale that records in a decent resolution?
Tony

Where can one find a card based recorder for sale that records in a decent resolution?
Tony

The Ovation Flashback 2 will record MPEG2 with variable bit rate up to 9.5 MBit/sec max:

http://www.ovation.co.uk/FlashBack-2%20Rugged%20DVR.html

It's not cheap though (not really aimed at the consumer market). I'm sure others exist.

Cheers

Chris

Chris - How does the above compare to the solid state recorders price wise? I'm sure some people might be interested, although the quality is surprising and is a lot better than Youtube quality!

Unfortunately miniDV recorders are getting thin on the ground, or at least ones with the required functionality are (sorry, should have said that before :sorry:). You need one with composite video (and audio if you are using a mike) inputs, and ideally firewire input as well as output so you can edit on a pc and output back to tape.

I'm only really familiar with Sony kit, and it looks like none of their latest range has this functionality. Older units (eg Sony HC32, HC96, PC55, PC109) are available second hand or still stocked new in some shops (£300 to £500). Other manufacturers may still sell new products to fit the bill.

You are then looking at a waterproof camera with composite output (£100 to £150), waterproof case (£20 to £30), camera battery pack (12 vdc NiCD or NiMH), cabling and connectors. You'll need to be happy with basic DIY, wiring and soldering.

The other challenge is controlling the recorder - you really do not want to be opening the waterproof case to start / stop recorder or change tapes whilst at sea. The Sony HC32, HC96 and PC109 use a wired system called LANC for which remote controls are available - I think Canon also use LANC.

Finally, if you are going to be 'wearing' the camera, you need to consider safety - if the camera is attached in some way to your head, and the recorder is on your back or in the boat, you need some sort of breakaway connector between the two, so if the worst happens the connector just pulls apart before it takes your head off.

Cheers

Chris

Well here goes..
This is the plan....
After trying a couple of different methods of attaching cameras to my a frame ( and ripped the threads out:eek: ) i am going to mount a 580 line bullet cam running cables down to the storage locker under the back seat. In a waterproof box a recorder(maybe a sold state one) and power connections. If all goes to plan change my Raymarine c80 for a e80 so i can line in the video to see everything lines up ok.Ideally a switch on the console to start and stop recording but I don't think this is possible:] . Aiptek make a cheap sd card based camcorder with a line in, so i might try that. Any thoughts?
thanks
Tony

If you get an E80 I would be very tempted to get a camera that is good in low light as well. Then you can have an IR illuminator and drive around at night and still see where you are going!!! Also a camera that is waterproof so you can chuck it over the side and see/record what's under you.

MAYBE something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CCTV-Sony-Fishing-Color-Camera-Underwater-30m-Submarine_W0QQitemZ250135380400QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Well here goes..
This is the plan....
After trying a couple of different methods of attaching cameras to my a frame ( and ripped the threads out:eek: ) i am going to mount a 580 line bullet cam running cables down to the storage locker under the back seat. In a waterproof box a recorder(maybe a sold state one) and power connections. If all goes to plan change my Raymarine c80 for a e80 so i can line in the video to see everything lines up ok.Ideally a switch on the console to start and stop recording but I don't think this is possible:] . Aiptek make a cheap sd card based camcorder with a line in, so i might try that. Any thoughts?
thanks
Tony
If you go for a 'lipstick' camera with a standard 'tripod' thread on the back, you can get a range of mounts that should allow you to clamp it to your A frame, eg:

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Mounting%20Brackets.htm

Clamps like the mini clamp (MC) work well in my experience.

I had a look at the Aiptek website, but could not see which camcorder you were looking at?

Cheers

Chris

If you get an E80 I would be very tempted to get a camera that is good in low light as well. Then you can have an IR illuminator and drive around at night and still see where you are going!!! Also a camera that is waterproof so you can chuck it over the side and see/record what's under you.

MAYBE something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CCTV-Sony-Fishing-Color-Camera-Underwater-30m-Submarine_W0QQitemZ250135380400QQihZ015QQcategoryZ 384QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
You would struggle to get an IR illuminator with a good enough range to make it worthwhile (IME). The cameras with IR LEDs built in are typically no good for more than about 5 metres. Typically with this type of budget camera you gain low light performance at the expense of 'normal' light performance.

Waterproof camera is a must for any use on a RIB, but again for a budget camera I would not expect it to be reliable underwater for anything more than short periods.

Cheers

Chris

I found this site, and they use the aiptek as a recorder
http://www.bulletcam.com/

You would struggle to get an IR illuminator with a good enough range to make it worthwhile (IME). The cameras with IR LEDs built in are typically no good for more than about 5 metres. Typically with this type of budget camera you gain low light performance at the expense of 'normal' light performance.

Waterproof camera is a must for any use on a RIB, but again for a budget camera I would not expect it to be reliable underwater for anything more than short periods.

Cheers

Chris

Yes I know you have pretty limited range - what you need is a 55w halogen with an IR filter over it - then you can see on the screen but no light to blind you.

If you want the ultimate to connect to your E series get one of these.

http://www.cvs.flir.com/maritime/products/mariner.cfm

Watch the video - they look pretty impressive - same FLIR view that you see on the Police helicopter!!!

If you want the ultimate to connect to your E series get one of these.

http://www.cvs.flir.com/maritime/products/mariner.cfm


There are also UK companies manufacturing similar units - for example Vector Developments in Wool on the south coast:

http://www.seamoon.co.uk/15801/index.html

Hard to justify the cost though unless you do a lot of night passages in difficult locations.

Cheers

Chris

I have no doubt those are better cameras -= the one I posted is supposed to be at a new price point - about £1200 - not cheap but compared to the rest of the stuff out there...............

I found this site, and they use the aiptek as a recorder
http://www.bulletcam.com/
Difficult to know what sort of performance you will get out of it, but my expectations would not be very high. It gives a video resolution of 640 x 480 pixels, so not really worth having a camera with more than 480 lines. Bit rate is relatively low, but MPEG4 gives better compression than MPEG2.
Again, it depends on what you are going to do with the output - playback in a window on a pc should be ok, but if you wanted to make a DVD you would end up needing to convert MPEG4 to MPEG2, which is likely to give you lots of artefacts.

I'd have a surf and see what people are using it for, and how they rate it. Better still if anyone has posted video from one you will be able to see exactly what you will get.

You didn't say what you disliked about the Action 2000 camera?

Cheers

Chris

I have no doubt those are better cameras -= the one I posted is supposed to be at a new price point - about £1200 - not cheap but compared to the rest of the stuff out there...............
TBH, I thought they were more than that, but it was a fair time ago we spoke to one of the UK suppliers. There is a new generation of uncooled thermal imager modules on the market that is reportedly giving very good performance at a good price.

i found this today, do you guys think it would work ok as a recorder from a bullet cam?
thanks
Tony
Sandisk V mate (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2171)

i found this today, do you guys think it would work ok as a recorder from a bullet cam?
thanks
Tony
Sandisk V mate (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2171)
I think it will be pretty close to the same video spec as the Aiptek and will have the same limitations. Plus it looks like you need a 5 vdc supply and to start / stop recording via the remote control.

It does look like a very neat bit of kit though.

Cheers

Chris

i found this today, do you guys think it would work ok as a recorder from a bullet cam?
thanks
Tony
Sandisk V mate (http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2171)

Found that a while back - it looks more like something you would have attached to your TV at home rather than in a boat ............... buy one and let us know how you get on! :D

Maybe worth your while looking at FastFilms website.

It's a company run by a guy who I know of from a car forum I used to use. He has been filming from cars and bike for years now, so should know what he is talking about (he does group discounts too :) )

Web Site (http://www.fastfilms.co.uk/index.htm)

Shop (https://sslrelay.com/s139675512.oneandoneshop.co.uk/sess/utn;jsessionid=15468aae972e569/shopdata/index.shopscript)

Tim

How waterproof are the marine housings for cd players/radio's?
I had a new thought!!:]
I found this on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Car-In-Dash-Motorized-LCD-DVD-MP4-TV-FM-Player_W0QQitemZ160132017451QQihZ006QQcategoryZ677 72QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)... it has a av in on the back and would be good to monitor the bullet cam.
Thanks Tony

How waterproof are the marine housings for cd players/radio's?
I had a new thought!!:]
I found this on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Car-In-Dash-Motorized-LCD-DVD-MP4-TV-FM-Player_W0QQitemZ160132017451QQihZ006QQcategoryZ677 72QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)... it has a av in on the back and would be good to monitor the bullet cam.
Thanks Tony

In a nice dry cockpit maybe! :D

Unfortunately no dry cockpit, smack bang in the middle of the console!!
Ooh i have bought the sandisk v mate thingy!
should be here soon