Which GPS?

Hi Everyone,

My current Gps has been sent to "Davy Jones Locker" it sprung a leak due to the case being distorted on fitting (by previous owner) honest! Sent for repair and the satelite reciever is u/s cost of replacement uneconomical.

The unit was a MLR 312FX to replace will cost approx £300.00.

I have looked at the Navman 500i with the fuel unit. I have been quoted £280.00 for the pair. Dose anyone have experience on this Gps unit?

I understand that this unit is gas seald with an integral aerial, Is this better than external aerial mounted on an "A" Frame? Is it suitable for Ribs?

Or is there any other type of unit on the market that offers the same features? I have not found one as yet

I cannot justify the extra expence on a map type plotter unit, in my view still too expensive but I stand to be corrected. My Main cruise area is the Solent.

Sorry there are lots of questions. All views are very welcome.

Regards

Hi There

I have heard that the Navman electronics leak, some people are on there 3rd one etc, I would recommend Garmin every time, had no problems with any of there equipment.

Julian

Kevin,

I would agree with Julian, the Garmin units are very good and the after sales service is second to none.

I have the 126 with remote aerial but I think you can get the same model with built-in aerial which saves all the hassle of trying to thread a cable (which can't be cut) through to the A-frame.

Originally posted by Ribald
the hassle of trying to thread a cable (which can't be cut)

Oh yes it can!

But I would agree that Garmin products are excellent, with a terrific after sales service.

I have a MLR 312 GPS plus a Raymarine 425 Plotter on Blue Ice. The thing I like about the MLR is that it has a full numeric keypad which makes entering waypoints a lot easier. The plotter btw is around £400, what makes them expensive is the price of Navionics chart chips - £180 for one for the East Coast. (Mind you does cover from Holland on one side, Grimbsy on 't'other down to Sarf of the Dover strait)

If I were replacing a GPS I would tend to go for one with an internal antennae. Two reasons....1) avoids the hassle of running cabling under the deck to the A-frame and 2) one less connector to get wet, break and generally worry about.

Cant speak for Garmin cos never owned one but lots of folk swear by them. Had a Lowrance and wasnt impressed. Gotta MLR which I like but came with the boat and bought the Raymarine which I think is excellent VFM.

Cheers,
Alan

First Raymarine, second Garmin. No contest!

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
Oh yes it can!


Dirk's dead right. Just pick up some scissors and go snip. Shortly afterwards, do the same to your warranty card.

Warrenttees aside for the cable. before you cut the connector off make sure you have the correct replacement connector, "looks about right" offten isn't goodnt enough.
Have fun Jelly

There's no need to thread the cable to the A-frame, because there's no need to mount your GPS antenna on the A-frame!

Not only is the cabling a pain, but the antenna is unnecessarily vulnerable stuck up there -- especially on the standard 1" screw mount (designed for sailing boats!).

Mount your GPS antenna on the console. It doesn't need to be high, so long as it has a decent view of the sky. With some designs (possiobly many, or even most) you can take the bottom half off the casing and mount the unit straight onto the console. It's even possible to mount the antenna inside the console and still get a decent signal. Have a play around -- you might be surprised.

Why do people put GPS antennas on A-frames anyway?

John

Originally posted by davidmanning


Dirk's dead right. Just pick up some scissors and go snip. Shortly afterwards, do the same to your warranty card.

What's your name, Jon Fuller. Garmin don't mind you shortening the cable, as long as you crimp and solder the new plug on.

Although i would also agree that there is no need to fit the antenna on an A frame. Quite often we fit them inside the console, after all, the antenna casing is made of plastic and the signal seem to penetrate that ok!

Originally posted by John Kennett

Why do people put GPS antennas on A-frames anyway?

John

Damn good question. Guess it has something to do with using that dirty great piece of stainless for something useful other than mounting Nav lights on. Since 90% of dont have self righting gear, IMHO none of us need A frames really. Its just a styling thing.

I have gps antennaes both on the A-frame (cos thats what was already there) and on the console - mounted flush as JK mentions. The console mounted one for the plotter seems to get a decent Sat signal even though at some angles it could be conceivably shadowed by the steel frame around the windscreen.

Alan

I think the reason used to be to ensure that the antenna was not blocked by anything as the reception power a few years back was no as strong as it is now, It seems fine to flush mount them now and we will be adding ours to the console or the engine both when we fit the new Raython in a few weeks time.

A frames help with VHF reception as its good to get the antenna as high as possible.

Julian

Of course it might be useful to carry your charts & compasses for the next few weeks in case Uncle Sam switches the satellites off for a bit........

I have a Navman 500 with a built in antenna, it was usualy taken off and kept inside the console, generally a good job but the screen steamed up a bit last year. I intended to take it back but the years warranty ran out. I opened it up and dried out the silica gel pack and its been ok since. Not sure I would want to leave one out in the open all the time...

Right m8, I have alwaysed used Garmin, i have the Gramin 126 (GPS with internal arial) stright on my console, dad (cabin crusier) has Garmin 180 (chartplotter) ariel on roof, and we share the old Garmin 12 (GPS handheld), never had any problems at all. But I always considered Garmin to be a average suitable manufacture. For someone like me, on a (lose) budget who looks to buy cheap but good.

But the Navman with FUEL UNIT sounds good, if keeping an eye on your fuel consuption is what you need (i.e. crusing lots etc). Navman have a good repuation, but as pointed out many people have had leakage problems and have had many units replaced. So if you want the added benefit of a unit that will be monitoring your fuel with the risk that it will leak (even if it does hopefully under warranty so shouldnt be to much hassel to replace).

Persoanlly I'd give myself a few more options than just 2, read a few boating mags to see what they say when they do a test, then decide what suits you.

well thats my thoughts anyway :p

Originally posted by Alan
...none of us need A frames really. Its just a styling thing.... - C'mon Alan, you've forgotten that really vital purpose of the A-frame. I'll give you a clue, just as important as the drysuit comfort zip! :rolleyes:

I don't really think there is much debate to be had on the subject.

Navman make an affordable fuel monitoring solution with the added bonus of a GPS which is also now needed following death of the previous one.

Buy it. To my knowledge the only alternative is a FLO-Scan which is more expensive and does not come with a "free" GPS!

D

Daniel, have you got the Navman 500i fitted with the transducer kit? Who else has? I fitted mine last week obviously for a twin engine set-up, and tried it out at the week-end. I was just wondering about the accuracy...would you trust the figures implicitly?

I did not need, nor could i justify the extra cost of another GPS (More then happy with the Lowrance GPS-Map i have) but i wanted fuel monitoring...

So i fitted a Navman fishfinder with the fuel monitoring capability. This was months ago and the accuracy is very impressive - within my ability to measure it that is. I always fill the boat when back home fron cans, when the Navman says i've used 25li i can get a whole can in, if it says 50, two etc. Never measured the accuracy against a pump i'm affraid. Also never needed to calibrate the flow meter.

Don't really know how big my fuel tank is either! (sounds bad er?) But i've set the Navman to think it's 90li, best to be safe then sorry. I have run out once (before i had the fuel computer) and roughly worked it out to be 100li based upon reserve put in, distance to slip and amount to fill tank once home!

The addition of this is the only way i have been able to get some real consumption figures. Cruising @ 4000 RPM, i am burning 30li/hr, which i can easily double to 60li/hr if i nail the go faster stick!

I'll be interested to hear you'r figures Charles.

Interesting Daniel, my Navman was reporting 46l/hr cruising at +-38knts about 4000rpm - two Mariner 225hp (combined).
If this is in fact correct then I am not overly worried.

I would think it crucial to let Navman know exactly what capacity you have as it can then work out how much you have used over a given period. It is frightening to watch the figures as you open the throttles on mine - at this stage I pretend I am an ostrich :eek:

Thanks everyone,

I now have plenty of views to look through regarding which GPS to buy. Charles I would be very interested to hear how you get on with your Navman! Some people said they do not rate them as they have a tendency to leak, however, as always others rate them very well.

I know Garmin are the big player, but they do not offer the fuel monitoring feature which is what I would realy like to have, no fuel guage on board other than a dipping stick. I really like the Rayethon Gps but beyound my budget. I am surprised that no one else has a built in fuel monitoring system or do people rely on seperate fuel guages?

My Jet ski had the lot all laid into the console it could monitor (Hours, Fuel, Engine Revs, Distance, & Digital Compass) all from one unit. If I could buy on of these seperately I wonder if it could be used on my eninge?

As for mounting the mushroon dome on an "A" Frame I have my Nav Lights on mine, VHF Aerial, Searchlight and External Speaker. Plus I intend to mount towing brackets for the toys, ect.

Once again thanks

Regards

Originally posted by Aging Youth
I am surprised that no one else has a built in fuel monitoring system or do people rely on separate fuel gauges?

Funny you should say that, because when I was doing my investigations into fuel monitoring etc, I posed this very question to my local Raymarine dealer as well as Garmin. Both the replies were similar and quite acceptable.
' We stick to what we do best and leave others to manufacture these devices' - fair enough.
I also looked into the brilliant Floscan (http://www.floscan.com/html/index.asp) systems and was quoted the thick end of £2000.00 :eek: for my twin setup. I opted for the Navman system which I installed in less than an hour (very simple - and I like simple). The total cost was £152.00 for the Navman 500i and the fuel kit (for twins) was £64.00. I have only used it once so cannot comment as yet.

If I can offer you further advice, and that is to get a basic float system in your tank with a reliable gauge initially. The fancy bits can come later.

Geez! for that price I think I will get one in the near future! :eek:


Go to resreach...

Good Day Charles,

Thank you for your reply very usefull info, Did you purchase your unit in Jersey? I gather that the price you paid is free of VAT?

Is there any way I could purchase one at that price? The saving on U.K. price would help pay for float unit & guage.

I would hope to be able to attend the Ribnet meet in Plymouth if your intend going.

regards

Kevin AKA

I suppose a little 'sweetener' in the pub at Plymouth would entice me to buy one for you in Jsy , sans VAT and bring it over .

WOW :eek:

I've just stumbled across my receipt, £314 for a fish-finder and single engine fuel kit!

Hi Charles,

It would be a pleasure sir, I would love to join you for some liquid refreshments (note the plural) in Plymouth.

If you send me a PM with a contact number I will call you and discuss proposal.

Regards

Done, AY.

On another note...

As i already have a GPS, so have no place for the Navman 500. But they do appear to do a fishfinder with Fuel Monitering, the Fish 450 if i remember correctly. But I cannot find an online retailer (UK or anywhere) that stocks this. Does anybody know anymore about this system, price and functionality, Daniel said earlier he had something along this line. Also any of recommendations for fishfinder with fuel monitering?

Thanx

Yep, Fish 450 Tri-colour. Monitors water speed, temperature, battery voltage, fish! and of course fuel. Got it from

http://www.marinedirect.co.uk/system/index.html

Who are infact a company called John Bridger Marine in Exeter, 01392 216420 (I know this because i have the invoice from them!).

Charles myself and Tim run Navman 5600 plotter, gps with dual eng fuel inputs after careful calibration we have a 12% to 15% error per motor on full tank its quite good , amazing to see how your fuel range changes as u optimize cruising speed and revs, however unit is currently in for repair along with our Navman depth sounder( which can also take fuel inputs for a lot less the cost) due to moisture ingress despite the fact that it is IP67 submerssible to depth 1m for 30 mins , nice gavin

right then.
If charles is getting Kevin the GPS, over here, and I am looking to get the Fish 450 Tri-colour with fuel bit as well, and my dad is looking to get the 450 and fuel bit as well, well in short that means that our local re-seller is going to get 3 orders. So what is the possability of gettin a bit more than the usual 10% discount if 3 of us is buying? :eek:

Charles who did you buy yours off?

Sounds like it is at least worth a try :D

Hi TW

From the information I have required, The Navman fuel unit connectas to either the fishfinder or there Gps units (although not all of them).

Connection is made via a cable link that plugs into the back of the fishfinder or Gps. If you go to WWW.plastimo.com you will find out more details on this web site. I managed to download an instruction manual from the web, very good reading.

I spoke with Daniel on the subject of the fuel unit with fishfinder and he is very happy with performance/accuracy. As always there were some people who mentioned reliability could be an issue with time.

As Charles has already stated, instalation seems to be very easy, however, manual does state that you need to calibrate fuel unit first (25lts) to gain better accuracy.

One thought I did have last night, if we were able to purchase unit through Charles. Should there be any warrenty/service issues would we have to return unit to retailer in Jersey? Charles any thoughts.

My decision to buy has been made on the functionality of the unit combined with a Gps system, recomendations made on Ribnet and of course the price.

Cheap is not always chearfull :p

Regards

:] Good idea Lee - I buy most everything through Iron Stores Marine as I have an account and get 12% discount. I will phone Nigel this morning, price the items and let you all know.

For info: Filled up today following a good session out Saturday. NAVMAN said 47li used, and i got 46.8li in according to Elf fuel pump! Thats with no calibration.

Tim bought the Navman stuff online from the U.S I think it was vit electronics, at a much reduced price to the advertised UK price.Initally there was a recgonised Navman software problem with the fuel tranducer input into the depth sounder, incidently its speed log differs widely to the speed log on our Navman gps, despite different wheel positions and settings.The software upgrade allowing fuel trandsucer connection was provided free and under warranty by Navman.The Navman stuff comes with a two year worldwide warranty.It came from the states and was sent to Plastimeo in the UK.After calibration seperatly for each engine we still get about 12-15 % error and as I said in the last post both the units 5600 plotter and sounder are currently off the rib and in the UK for repair due to moisture getting in.However leaving this aside the Navman stuff is excellent but mobile phones and vhf from our nearest coastal station crashes the plotter if it is too close to it.It is really important to make sure the fuel trandsuer is right way up and free from vibration, this might involve replacing fuel hose each side of it to soft vibration absorbing hose for a metre or so gavin

http://www.vitelectronics.com/nm5600.html

Hi Gavin,

Thanks' for the info, realy appreciated. Will check out web site. However, in process of sorting a unit via Ribnet user with offshore contacts;)

Regards

Gavin/Kevin, this is the reply I received this morning:

Charles,

The 500i and 450i and not available here in the U.S.

Regards,
Mike Tralies
VIT Electronics
URL - http://www.vitelectronics.com
Email - vitelec@att.net

Kevin, I have not forgotten, just really busy at the mo.

Originally posted by Charles
Gavin/Kevin, this is the reply I received this morning:

Charles,

The 500i and 450i and not available here in the U.S.

Regards,
Mike Tralies
VIT Electronics
URL - http://www.vitelectronics.com
Email - vitelec@att.net

Kevin, I have not forgotten, just really busy at the mo.

Charles fear not, I shall go down tomorrow morning and see either Rob or Nigel, I am usually fine to get 10% so that is a starting point.

I dont start work until 1, so with any luck I will report back before then.

Thanx
Lee

Kevin and Lee, I have the priced the fishfinder and GPS with accompanying fuel kits, managed to get 20% off the lot - just cannot find the ruddy paper I wrote it on. Give me a coupla hours.

relax sir, the weekend is nigh, weather is OK, so dont PANIC!

there isnt asny rush, lucky I check the forum cuz I was about to go in:p

Just ordered a Navman thingy - if it does what it says on the tin I'll be a happy chappy - $200 all in including shipping. Got it from VIT - www.vitelectronics.com.

Cookee, look higher up on this thread!

Just to recap.

They let in moisture to the point they fail.

They crash near a mobile phone.

Thay crash near a vhf.

Reported in RI. Solid crash and could only be restarted by diconnecting the power.


Mmmm.


JW.

Hi Charles,

Thank you for the reply, I am very greatfull for your help & for the running around involved. I understand that people also have to earn a living. When you have details on the final price, please send me a pm to discuss details or I will give you a call.

Regards
Kevin

P.s Tw are you comming to Plymouth as well?

Originally posted by Aging Youth
P.s Tw are you comming to Plymouth as well?

oh ey??? :rolleyes:
err, don't know anything about it, all the threads in crusing are pages and pages long, so I never finish reading them to get all the info...

but I'll read later when I get back from work :p

Well ok let me rephrase that - I thought I'd ordered one!


Thank you for your order.

The Navman F41 is now unavailable and discontinued - we sold all of our
remaining units this week.
It will be replaced by the newer version F2100 - that unit will sell for
$159.00.
The F2100 will be in stock next week - we'll have it up on our website this
weekend.
Please let me know if you want to switch or cancel the order.

Regards,
Mike Tralies
VIT Electronics
URL - http://www.vitelectronics.com
Email - vitelec@att.net


A fat lot of help that is - the F2100 isn't on thier site - but had a look at www.navman.com and found it on there and it looks good. Only want the fuel thingy as it's on the raceboat. What do you think people? can anyone tell me where to get it cheaper?

Got till Monday or Tues I suppose till I have to make a decision,

By the way I'm based in Salcombe which is just down the road from Plymouth if that helps!

All the best everyone,


:eek:

Hi Cookie

If you go to www.navman.com or www.plastimo.co.uk

they have what you are looking for elecronic transponder & fuel guage only. If I remember correctly about £150.00 - £200.

regards

2100 Feul gauge and sender

£191.24 inc delivery from John Bridger Marine 01392 216420